Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?

Not quite. While Sig did come out with the P320, they're still coming out with metal guns as well. The P210 is being rereleased later in the year and they're also a year out from restarting the Sig Mastershop in the US. That will bring a lot of X5s back to the market, possibly with a lower price like the P210.
Good for Sig bringing back some of their old metal specialty guns in the $2K to $3K range. With a little luck, they will sell 1 or 2 of them for each hundred P320 plastic wonder guns they push out the door.

As much as I prefer all-metal, you won't find me buying those guns. I'm still struggling financially just to find a plain Jane P226 that I can afford to add to the collection.

As interesting as this Sig news may be, I don't see it as reversing or even slowing down the trend toward cheap, plastic, striker-fired wonder guns. But I have been wrong before. Maybe I am wrong again this time.
 
An SD40VE is a Striker Fire pistol with a relatively heavy trigger pull of about 8lbs. and is called "SDT" ("Self-Defense" Trigger) by S&W, I suppose with the idea that you're not going to pull unless it's an SD situation. And then, if it is, the trigger weight isn't going to matter given the adrenaline inherent to the situation.
I do love the term "Self-Defense Trigger"! :) It's brilliant marketing and it seems to have worked. That's what you call turning lemons into lemonade. :D

There are as many different triggers as there are guns and while it is fine to have a preference it seems to me that a person can either shoot guns well or they can't. If a person can only shoot well with a gun that has a certain "perfect" trigger for them then I wouldn't call them good with guns...maybe good with their gun but not overall.

I own all different types of guns and enjoy the variety they offer. Nothing wrong with a favorite type of trigger but the world of guns is a lot more fun when you embrace them all! I shoot them all pretty well, too.:)
I tend to agree with you as evidenced by the fact that I also shoot all sorts of handguns regularly... the good, the bad and the ugly... specifically to educate and desensitize myself to the wide variation in triggers out there today, especially here in moonbat Massachusetts.

You might want to try a really bad example of a Massachusetts trigger sometime. You might be surprised at just how nasty the trigger can be on a modern plastic gun. ;)
 
As a civilian carrying a handgun....... I like the long trigger pull on a revolver or DA/SA handgun...... over the short trigger on a Glock Yes I tried and owned 3/4 Glocks (19s/26s) in the late 80s early 90s.

Course I grew up shooting double action revolvers.

If I'm shooting for tiny little groups at 50ft or 25yds....... revolvers are used single action ........ and my auto of choice is my Dad's old model 41.

Just an FYI if you have a Beretta...... you can use the D Hammer Spring from their DOA guns in a standard DA/SA... $5 trigger job!!!!!
 
I think that the willingness to accept lousy triggers by many, is attributable to their limited experience with really nice triggers.

IE if all you have ever shot is Glocks or m&ps or Sigmas, how would you know what a good trigger pull feels like?

I was amazed at a post on another board by an alleged moderator. He opined that a good trigger pull "was a crutch". A moderator on a gun board said that. Another person responded to him and asked if his allegation were true, why was Apex making so much money giving m&p pistols the triggers they should have gotten from the factory? Good point.

Anyways, Ill follow Col. Cooper, Mas Ayoob and several other experienced marksmen I respect who have stated in print that a good trigger is fundamental to good marksmanship. I think those fellows know what they are talking about. YMMV Regards 18DAI
 
As much as I prefer all-metal, you won't find me buying those guns. I'm still struggling financially just to find a plain Jane P226 that I can afford to add to the collection.

As interesting as this Sig news may be, I don't see it as reversing or even slowing down the trend toward cheap, plastic, striker-fired wonder guns. But I have been wrong before. Maybe I am wrong again this time.

CDNN has pre-owned LE models at $489 in great shape. 9mm is an easy barrel swap. There are oodles on Gunbroker. If anything, the trend right now is toward the higher end all metal guns. P220 10mm are hard to find. The Legion models are selling like hot cakes. Wilson Combat is also selling every gun Beretta can make for them, and they've completely sold out their first run of M9A3s. All of those were the FS model, not the G conversions that a lot of people are waiting for.

They're still selling at a higher rate than revolvers, and Smith & Wesson doesn't seem to be moving revolvers at that high a rate.
 
CDNN has pre-owned LE models at $489 in great shape. 9mm is an easy barrel swap. There are oodles on Gunbroker. If anything, the trend right now is toward the higher end all metal guns. P220 10mm are hard to find. The Legion models are selling like hot cakes. Wilson Combat is also selling every gun Beretta can make for them, and they've completely sold out their first run of M9A3s. All of those were the FS model, not the G conversions that a lot of people are waiting for.

They're still selling at a higher rate than revolvers, and Smith & Wesson doesn't seem to be moving revolvers at that high a rate.
Well, two points:

1) I am very particular (many would say peculiar!) about the used guns I buy. I have to see, touch, smell and feel them in person 90% of the time... or at least get enough super-hi-def photos to convince myself that I won't get the big zing yet again. In other words, most on-line LEO trade-ins are out of the question for me. And yes, I want a 9mm P226... not a .40 or .357 Sig. Sig barrel conversions are $199 around here but I'm sure they are cheaper on-line. :cool:

2) Don't take offense but I'm still not seeing the evidence that all-metal guns are making a huge comeback and threatening the overwhelming trend toward cheap plastic. The Sig P220 10mm would be a fantastic addition to my collection... but it isn't MA-compliant and I doubt I'll ever be in a position to buy one. I love my Beretta 92FS and wanted dearly to add a Beretta 92FS INOX to my collection... but the price jumped $50 the very day I went in to buy one (no, that is not a joke!) and I was already straining like mad and beyond just to make the old price. I had to walk away. Meanwhile, I see cheap plastic wonder guns walking out the gun shop doors like a parade. :(

BTW, I'm not getting your point (here and above) re: S&W revolvers. :confused: I'm not seeing the tie-in to the topic. Perhaps you could clarify? :confused:
 
They're still selling at a higher rate than revolvers, and Smith & Wesson doesn't seem to be moving revolvers at that high a rate.

Well for one thing S&W seems to have issues installing barrel straight on them, I'm not surprised. Between the stupid lock and their spotty QC I have no desire to run out and buy a new one.
 
Anyways, Ill follow Col. Cooper, Mas Ayoob and several other experienced marksmen I respect who have stated in print that a good trigger is fundamental to good marksmanship. I think those fellows know what they are talking about. YMMV Regards 18DAI

I agree, but applying context changes things a bit from my perspective.

Mas Ayoob also differentiates between the desirable characteristics of a good target or competition gun's trigger from those suitable for a defensive weapon. He carries Glock's as often, if not more than anything else and all are equipped with OEM 8 lb NY trigger spring modules coupled with stock connectors.

I just don't feel a high degree of precision marksmanship is truly necessary in the context of civilian personal defense. No doubt you need to be able to put rounds on target, but the majority of self-defense situations are reactive close-quarter encounters. Due to the compressed distances and time frames and the probable need for movement and unarmed defensive tactics, threat focused shooting is most suitable with precision accuracy not being practical nor likely achievable.

In an actual defense situation, I find it difficult to believe that some of the finer points of what distinguishes a 'good trigger' from a 'bad' one What is a "good" trigger? – www.GrantCunningham.com would likely matter much or at all considering the loss of dexterity and fine motor skills that accompany the adrenaline fueled fight or flight response.
 
I think that the willingness to accept lousy triggers by many, is attributable to their limited experience with really nice triggers.

IE if all you have ever shot is Glocks or m&ps or Sigmas, how would you know what a good trigger pull feels like?

I was amazed at a post on another board by an alleged moderator. He opined that a good trigger pull "was a crutch". A moderator on a gun board said that. Another person responded to him and asked if his allegation were true, why was Apex making so much money giving m&p pistols the triggers they should have gotten from the factory? Good point.

Anyways, Ill follow Col. Cooper, Mas Ayoob and several other experienced marksmen I respect who have stated in print that a good trigger is fundamental to good marksmanship. I think those fellows know what they are talking about. YMMV Regards 18DAI

I totally agree. My first pistol was a Sigma 40 that I bought for home defense. Practicing with that gun was a major chore because my accuracy with that gun was terrible. No grouping-just all over the place. My trips to the range became less and less frequent until I stopped going all together. I just thought I was a terrible shot. A few years later I fell in love with a Sig P6 at the gun store and I just had to have it. It sat in my closet for several months before I tried it out but when I did I was blown away. First mag: 8 rounds in a 5inch bullseye group. No more concentrating on my breathing or my grip or how to squeeze the trigger-just aim and shoot.
For me, a hammer-fired DA/SA beats striker fired any day. Ironically, buying a Sig is what got me into old Smith semi-autos. Go figure.
 
And Sig just reintroduced the P225. Someone sees a market for nice DA/SA pistols. ;)
 
Well, two points:

BTW, I'm not getting your point (here and above) re: S&W revolvers. :confused: I'm not seeing the tie-in to the topic. Perhaps you could clarify? :confused:

For one part of your question, I wouldn't use MA compliance as a guide to what's popular. Like California, it's stupid expensive to get them to check out a gun, and any changes made to the gun (like a different P226 variant) requires retesting (and more cash).

As far as the revolver crack goes, a reason the 3rd Gens were cancelled is because the market wants plastic guns that are lighter, hold more bullets, and far cheaper to make. Revolvers have lost the majority of their popularity. They're also gigantic, heavier than any 1911, and only hold between 5-8 rounds. They also cost Sig money to buy. In other words, they're the exact opposite of what the "market" says it wants.

Using that logic, if S&W wants to make revolvers, they should be making polymer frames because they're cheaper and lighter.

Whereas the market has shown that people will pay more for a premium firearm that's well made and crafted. The CZ Shadow is the overwhelming ruler of competition guns, even over Glock.

It seems counter intuitive, but Bill Wilson is a huge fan of Beretta 92s. He's a big enough industry figure that if he asks if you want to work together and a business venture, you shut up and count how much money you've made. When he talked to Beretta, the Italians declared the 92 dead and the PX4 was the future. No one wanted an improved 92 otherwise the 90-two would have been a massive success.

After using his crowbar of justice, he pryed Beretta's ironclad cheeks far enough open to make a limited run of 1,000 Brigadier Tacticals. In the first week of preorders, they sold out their initial run of 250 pistols and most of their 2nd shipment of 250. It's been such a massive success that it's no longer a limited run. It's been so big they made the Custom Carry as another non-limited run.

They also did a run of the 92G-SDs for the folks stuck in "People's Republics..." and they're hard to find. Even the M9A3 in dog poo brown has sold through it's initial run until they get their new TN plant up and gets through the next order of M9s for the military.

And Sig is drowning in cash to such a degree they've started making their own optics and ammo.

All of this for a type of gun that the market has indicated that it "doesn't want" according the what it does want listed earlier. But it will sell you a .460 XVR with a 10.5" barrel, a 5 round capacity, weighs more than 3 Glocks, and costs around $1,300 street price. But supposedly, according to S&W, more people want that revolver more than a high quality 9mm/.45 that's not a 1911, is of high quality, reliable, can outshoot the average plastic pistol, and is something the average person would use for self defense.

If you're a law enforcement agency and you write a big enough check, you can have them built.

Doing a minor drift, I would not go back to the same strategy that S&W used before they canceled them. I wouldn't bother with a Value Line at all. I wouldn't build a DAO variant. I wouldn't spend the money for an alloy frame model since they didn't sell well and cost the same as the steel models. I wouldn't build any .40 models because they don't sell well and S&W did something with their magazine design to limit them to a max of 11 rounds. Just leave them 9mm and .45, full size TSW with the integrated rail, and the 3913/4513 CCW line that no one had done as good ever since.
 
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Doing a minor drift, I would not go back to the same strategy that S&W used before they canceled them. I wouldn't bother with a Value Line at all. I wouldn't build a DAO variant. I wouldn't spend the money for an alloy frame model since they didn't sell well and cost the same as the steel models. I wouldn't build any .40 models because they don't sell well and S&W did something with their magazine design to limit them to a max of 11 rounds. Just leave them 9mm and .45, full size TSW with the integrated rail, and the 3913/4513 CCW line that no one had done as good ever since.

OK!...... well I'd go with the 4566 vs 4506!
 
Mas Ayoob also differentiates between the desirable characteristics of a good target or competition gun's trigger from those suitable for a defensive weapon.
As well he should. I'm not looking for a hair trigger on the gun I carry in my pocket. Use of safety notwithstanding, I'd probably shoot myself getting in or out of the car. :eek: I recently had a chance to try a bullseye competition grade single action pistol with the lightest trigger ever (lighter than any Model 41 or 52-2 I've ever picked up). It was fabulous for me at the range, but I'm not asking for that on a carry or personal defense gun. On the other hand, too many of the striker-fired plastic wonders I've tried are simply atrocious trigger-wise, especially here behind enemy lines. :o

I just don't feel a high degree of precision marksmanship is truly necessary in the context of civilian personal defense. No doubt you need to be able to put rounds on target, but the majority of self-defense situations are reactive close-quarter encounters. Due to the compressed distances and time frames and the probable need for movement and unarmed defensive tactics, threat focused shooting is most suitable with precision accuracy not being practical nor likely achievable.

In an actual defense situation, I find it difficult to believe that some of the finer points of what distinguishes a 'good trigger' from a 'bad' one What is a "good" trigger? – www.GrantCunningham.com would likely matter much or at all considering the loss of dexterity and fine motor skills that accompany the adrenaline fueled fight or flight response.
If you ever want a new job, you'd make a great Assistant AG in the People's Republic of Taxachusetts. ;)
 
OK!...... well I'd go with the 4566 vs 4506!

Oh snap! I completely forgot about that. I'm use to S&W autos having 4" barrels. I completely forgot the .45s came in 5" versions. I'll pretend I meant for that distinction and say 5" models and a small batch of 10mm are reserved "if sales warrant them..." :D
 
As far as the revolver crack goes...
I'm giving your post a "like" just for the writing effort alone even if I don't understand most of it. :( Maybe just a huge mental block on my part. I am, after all, not your typical handgun buyer today. At least I don't think I am. :o

For the record, I'd still be buying S&W revolvers today if it weren't for the stupid IL and a few other cheapening down measures that turn me off. I'm not a fan of a lot of their newfangled revolver designs and the mega-monster caliber hunting guns, but I can think of at least half a dozen S&W revolvers that I'd love add to the collection this year if it were not for the silly IL (which I find repulsive on multiple levels).

I did understand your points about some of the newly minted all-metal pistols and updated designs... and I think that's a great thing even if not necessarily for me personally.

I can't agree with your last paragraph at all. We all have our own ideas about how we'd like to see S&W re-introduce at least some of the 3rd Gen guns or updated versions thereof. It is discussed here quite regularly. :D But again, I am not your typical gun buyer today and my collection of used 3rd Gens along with harsh financial realities probably wouldn't make me the most anxious and aggressive buyer of brand new ones anyway with the possible exception of a new version 4506 or 1006. :)
 
He was a fan of the CZ design, and was a proponent of the Bren Ten, which was based on the CZ DA pistols. He definitely was all about the 1911, but even moreso about a good trigger being key to accurate shooting.
Of course! :D How could I forget his Bren Ten! :)
 
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