CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Not to mention the inherent inefficiently involved when converting one power source to another.
WHILE SOME MAY APPLAUD THE TESLA'S MY OPINION IS NOW A BIT DIFFERENT!
- Thread starter chief38
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Saw a few comments here about no spare tire and the prices of cars. Have had 4 Vettes with no spares and the prices on two of the cars were close to the cost listed on here.
The only problems I have had with "RunFlats" is they ride harsher and they do not get as much traction and they do not last as long. Of course they are much more expensive than conventional tires but are speed rated to insane speeds!
I have had a couple flats with those tires. About the only way you know you have a flat is the light on the instrument panel lights up and the gauge will tell you what your tire pressure is for that tire. No change in the driving experience!
Fifty miles possibly but I did a heck of a lot more on a Run Flat and at highway speeds. Not recommended I might add but I know a lot of Vette people and many have done it.
Now does tha fancy voltage car have run flats or is that just another in that fancy cars something they should have done differently?
The factory Goodyear’s were the worst RF’s, nicknamed run craps
I switched to Michelin PS3’s, a much better riding tire.I could never figure out where to put one spare nevermind the two the car would require, 19” front 20” rear.
The factory Goodyear’s were the worst RF’s, nicknamed run craps
I could never figure out where to put one spare nevermind the two the car would require, 19” front 20” rear.
Right you are I changed to Firestone's on two of my rides. I would never replace the Bad Years with more Bad Years. With that said inflated or not they still got me back home. At my age and medical conditions changing a tire on the side of the road is not a option.
I concur on the Michelin Pilot Sports being less harsh, Ladder13. Vast differences in ride quality & handling between brands. When you have dedicated rears and fronts the run flats are the answer. They worked well enough.
Walter's post about a Tesla integrated system makes sense for some folks, it is a cool plan. I am rooting for Tesla to do well. At least the car would be driven often.
How many of us have purchased the battery tool system with 5 tools and a radio all running on the same battery pack?
If the batteries can hold up over time it is nice, but as a part time user the batteries were always dead when I needed to fix something. Great when new, but over time not so good. The batteries became less & less effective until they would no longer hold a charge. Bought corded &/or gas versions of the tools...they always work.
Battery tech has a ways to go. Need to get more output out of a smaller, lighter, cheaper design and above all they need to have a longer lifespan.
Valid points regarding the sheer quantity of electricity needed and the time it would take to upgrade the delivery system. National upgrades need to happen anyway.
Walter's post about a Tesla integrated system makes sense for some folks, it is a cool plan. I am rooting for Tesla to do well. At least the car would be driven often.
How many of us have purchased the battery tool system with 5 tools and a radio all running on the same battery pack?
If the batteries can hold up over time it is nice, but as a part time user the batteries were always dead when I needed to fix something. Great when new, but over time not so good. The batteries became less & less effective until they would no longer hold a charge. Bought corded &/or gas versions of the tools...they always work.
Battery tech has a ways to go. Need to get more output out of a smaller, lighter, cheaper design and above all they need to have a longer lifespan.
Valid points regarding the sheer quantity of electricity needed and the time it would take to upgrade the delivery system. National upgrades need to happen anyway.
OP
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The Tesla electronic, computer, battery and autonomous driving technology is nothing short of incredible and quite impressive! Where my feathers get ruffled is where the "regular" features kick in. In my mind, a 100K + all electric car should ride better and be much quieter than a conventional SUV costing almost half - it doesn't. They should have put more though (practicality) into the glass roof (a hindrance in the bright rising or setting sun - maybe an electric sun shade). While the rear gull wing doors are futuristic, they will sometimes not open up because they detect a tree branch above them (which really isn't going to be in the way - but the car thinks so). A spare tire - to me an essential requirement even if I had to buy one aftermarket. Unfortunately even if one did get an aftermarket tire there is no place for it except in the regular passenger compartment.
While the interior of the Tesla is OK, I do not find it any more comfortable (and many times less) than a conventional medium to high end vehicle of the same cost. It seems to me that the designers put 99.9% of their effort into the new technology and forgot or ignored the old practicality. Or..... maybe I'm just an old fart!
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That’s why we have cell phones and roadside assistance. Who wants to be standing on the shoulder of the NYS Thruway at night in the rain changing a tire anyway? Perhaps coming back from a wedding or celebration wearing a suit?
At least with RF’s you can exit off the roadway safely.
I think hybrid cars.....
...are a good answer.
...are a good answer.
I just love the solar panel powered concept. Yup, " clean free power" ! What a joke. Some of my co workers have worked in a silicon production plant. Sounded to me like a environmental nightmare. Can't remember the name of the gases, but they was everywhere, got released regularly and was very toxic. Not to mention the "normal to refinery workers" solvents, caustics and acids.
Just like most of the "clean" energy stuff it isn't so "clean" when you actually start looking at the nuts and bolts of it.
Just like Lithium batteries. It takes 24 kilos of lithium to make the batteries for a Telsa. That is over 50# of it. I takes 500,000 gallons to process a ton of raw lithium. 12,500 of clean water to make enough for a Telsa battery and 12,500 gallons of water polluted by lots of what I call methal ethyl bad stuff. Sure it can be cleaned up and re run. Or it can leak into the loacal rivers and ground waters as it did in Tibet. But, hey, that is Tibet, no worries here in America, where mining has such a stellar environmental record. Right? Nobody would exploit the environment for clean energy and MONEY, now would they? LOL. Look up whats going on in the lithium mines in Chile, Bolivia, Argentina and Tibet and tell me its all good. LOL. Now tell me we should should mine enough lithium to make all the world power "CLEAN". What a Joke. or a HOAX
Trashing half the planet so we can stand clean in our corner is like putting a paper towel on top of a heap of garbage before you sit your sandwich on it.
Want really to clean up the planet?
Reverse population growth. There are simply to many people wanting to much "stuff"
In 1800 there were 1 billion people
1900 there were about 1.75 billion, an increase of 750 million
at 2000 there were nearly 6 BILLION an increase of 3.5 times
in the 20 years between 2000 and 2020 we ONLY added another 2 BILLION
Quit having so many kids. One per couple would be great.
I don't care if YOU can afford 2-20 kids the planet CAN NOT
Just like most of the "clean" energy stuff it isn't so "clean" when you actually start looking at the nuts and bolts of it.
Just like Lithium batteries. It takes 24 kilos of lithium to make the batteries for a Telsa. That is over 50# of it. I takes 500,000 gallons to process a ton of raw lithium. 12,500 of clean water to make enough for a Telsa battery and 12,500 gallons of water polluted by lots of what I call methal ethyl bad stuff. Sure it can be cleaned up and re run. Or it can leak into the loacal rivers and ground waters as it did in Tibet. But, hey, that is Tibet, no worries here in America, where mining has such a stellar environmental record. Right? Nobody would exploit the environment for clean energy and MONEY, now would they? LOL. Look up whats going on in the lithium mines in Chile, Bolivia, Argentina and Tibet and tell me its all good. LOL. Now tell me we should should mine enough lithium to make all the world power "CLEAN". What a Joke. or a HOAX
Trashing half the planet so we can stand clean in our corner is like putting a paper towel on top of a heap of garbage before you sit your sandwich on it.
Want really to clean up the planet?
Reverse population growth. There are simply to many people wanting to much "stuff"
In 1800 there were 1 billion people
1900 there were about 1.75 billion, an increase of 750 million
at 2000 there were nearly 6 BILLION an increase of 3.5 times
in the 20 years between 2000 and 2020 we ONLY added another 2 BILLION
Quit having so many kids. One per couple would be great.
I don't care if YOU can afford 2-20 kids the planet CAN NOT
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deadin
US Veteran
Back to horse and buggy??
At least the by-product is organic and can make things grow instead of killing everything....
At least the by-product is organic and can make things grow instead of killing everything....
As a construction worker I have done both new construction and maintenance in many chemical plants. I have a total of about 5 years at different times in a big silicone plant. There is some real bad chemicals used in those places. A drip the size of a lady bug could kill you. Safety showers were all over and we all (plant people and contractors) had to attend many serious safety classes.
There was one extremely nasty area that did a lot of unloading of railroad cars, storage of chemical. If I remember correctly they had about 20 different types of acid in that building among other nasty things. It was a place you hoped the boss would not send you to even thought there was plenty of over time available there. All work in the building full chemical gear had to be worn at all times!
Maybe the greenies mean “cleanup” energy?
Actually the simpler more primitive life styles have seldom destroyed there own environment.
Want an interesting read. Try the Uni bombers manifesto. Yup, he was a crazy *** with his message delivery system. but some of the actual message made sense. We have traded stuff and perceived comfort and advancement for family time and real happiness.
A shiny new car, a big house and a safe full of collectable S&W revolvers is nice, but, it won't necessarily mean happiness. This country has its share of miserable rich people and some happy poor people.
There have been plenty of stories hereof happiness during poor child hoods. and plenty of tales of dissatisfied rich kids doing stupid stuff. Think about it.
My mother was born in a half sod house into the poverty of a the early 30s. Raised on home grown food, and hand me down clothes. She never once told me of her "unhappy" childhood. Same for my father. How odd when you hear all the stories of "terrible" modern childhoods complete with TVs, phones, cool toys, McDonald's, single rooms, soft beds and designer clothes. Ah, progress
Want an interesting read. Try the Uni bombers manifesto. Yup, he was a crazy *** with his message delivery system. but some of the actual message made sense. We have traded stuff and perceived comfort and advancement for family time and real happiness.
A shiny new car, a big house and a safe full of collectable S&W revolvers is nice, but, it won't necessarily mean happiness. This country has its share of miserable rich people and some happy poor people.
There have been plenty of stories hereof happiness during poor child hoods. and plenty of tales of dissatisfied rich kids doing stupid stuff. Think about it.
My mother was born in a half sod house into the poverty of a the early 30s. Raised on home grown food, and hand me down clothes. She never once told me of her "unhappy" childhood. Same for my father. How odd when you hear all the stories of "terrible" modern childhoods complete with TVs, phones, cool toys, McDonald's, single rooms, soft beds and designer clothes. Ah, progress
What is the life of the batteries before they can not longer hold a charge and need replacement?
Once the battery pack dies the car is useless. So at that time will it be cheaper to get rid of the car and buy a new one vs. replacing the batteries?
My truck is 10 years old and has not needed any major repairs. If it does need repair even on a road trip it will not be to terribly difficult to find a shop to get it fixed. With the electric car how many shops with trained mechanics and specialized tools and equipment to fix it.
Once the battery pack dies the car is useless. So at that time will it be cheaper to get rid of the car and buy a new one vs. replacing the batteries?
My truck is 10 years old and has not needed any major repairs. If it does need repair even on a road trip it will not be to terribly difficult to find a shop to get it fixed. With the electric car how many shops with trained mechanics and specialized tools and equipment to fix it.
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Ya positive pressure suits where you put the suit on and air pressure blow it up so you look like the Pillsbury dough boy, so any leak will blow the chemicals out. Some call them Gumby suits. Had a co worker who was missing a finger from a small leak of Hydrofloric acid. It seeks calcium and dissolves your bones. They never got calcium injected into his finger quickly enough and he said they were taking about taking his whole hand off. One breath of it as vapor and you are DONE. Working with pure hydrocloric acid was enough for me. Have it dripping on your suit and off your gloves and seeing the concrete it hit smoking away. 85 degrees outside and 125 in the gear wearing a supplied air mask set up. Better or worse than 100% hydrogen sulfide, when greater than 500 parts per million (.05%) is immediately fatal? I call it atmospheric scuba diving. Nice stuff. Clean energy my rosy red rear. LOL
The Tesla's tire split down the middle! There was no nail or screw in the tire - it just failed catastrophically! Nothing fixable even if there was a repair kit.
FUNNY thing is that they DO give you a Jack- LOL.
That just proves they don't give you Jack.
Back to horse and buggy??
At least the by-product is organic and can make things grow instead of killing everything....
What a wonderful green idea!
...do you have any idea how deep that horse**** would be on I-5 South during rush hour?
Maybe horse drawn bulldozers to clear it all?
DWalt
Member
One issue previously alluded to is the effect of cabin heating and A/C on the driving range of an EV. I have seen estimates that it can reduce range by 20%-40% depending on how cold or how hot it is outside. Heating and A/C systems alone can also consume significant power. I just read an article about future taxation of EVs to make up for loss of gasoline tax revenue. Seems like something such as a pay-as-you-drive taxation method may be in the works. Instrumentation tracks and transfers your mileage remotely and your credit card gets charged a mileage tax (or fee) periodically. I have always believed that a hybrid design makes much more sense than a 100% plug-in EV, but I seriously doubt I will live long enough to ever buy an EV or a hybrid vehicle. But I do have a golf cart. Another issue is insurance. No firsthand knowledge, but I have read that it is much easier to total out an EV than a gasoline powered car, so auto insurance may become a great deal more expensive for all vehicles when EVs make up a significant portion of cars on the road. Another thing I think about is the increased load on power plants and the electric grid capacity once we get a high number of EVs on the road, especially how much it will increase electricity prices for everything and everyone to pay for all those generation and distribution system capital expansions and improvements that will be needed.
LVSteve
Member
The spare wheel battle is largely lost. Runflats gave manufacturers a way to get weight out the vehicle that could be used in other parts of the structure. It also allowed them to simplify the pressings at the rear of all vehicles. That's why there is no space for a spare even if you wanted to carry one. Cheaper to produce and another 0.05 mpg on their official mileage for the EPA. Woohoo!
I agree that it sucks, especially in the more far flung places in the West with nasty weather and spotty cellphone coverage. On the latter point, have you ever tried to explain to most people today that chunks of the country don't have cell service? You get the "Let's smile and humor the drooling idiot" treatment. They flat out don't believe you.
OP
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I understand certain circumstances why some people can not physically change a tire, but many times there are younger people in the vehicle or close by that can. If a good citizen were to pull over tp help he could get it done in 15 minutes as opposed to waiting for a tow truck to tow you into a dealer ASSUMING they would even be opened at the time you got a flat. What happens if you are in the sticks at 10pm?
I always like to be self sufficient and not have to rely on luck, time of day, or place of travel. Actually the more I think about it, the older you are the more I'd want the ability to at least find a person to help out and not have to sit and wait in the hopes a Dealer will have a spare.
I agree that Run-flats should be standard on vehicles with no spares!
Rodan
Member
It's amazing sometimes how city folk just don't get it...
We had to call for a tow through our Good Sam coverage due to a failed fuel pump in CO a couple of months ago. Even after providing a highway and milepost, GPS coordinates, and specific directions (we were ~3 miles from a major landmark), I had to repeat all three multiple times over a 50 minute (!) phone call before the dullard on the other end was able to understand our location clearly enough to determine which local tow company to call. Once called, the tow truck arrived within 15 minutes...
A couple of miles further down that road and there would have been no cell service...
