SIG P320 Discharges?

[SFury79]

Granted, I'm behind the times, but am I really missing out on anything?

No. Tools that work are all that matter at the end of the day. The hammer I bought 15 years ago will pound in a nail just as well as the new hammer my Dad bought because he lost another one. Which he found later, but that's not important..

 

[Terry G]

My Wife bought me a P 320 and a P320 Compact for Christmas. Now this. I'm not telling her of course, range only until this matter is straightened out. If it ever is. I like my CZ's better anyway, and I'm carrying a S&W M&P .45 Compact. Still bums me out though. I always thought Sig was a top of the line manufacturer.

 

[KertP]

FWIW, Sig should have updated their P250 DAO. All of mine have Armory Craft triggers with a 6 - 7 pound DAO trigger pull. During my 3 decades in the US Army, the requirement for the 1911A1 was an 8 pound trigger pull. Same with the Single Action trigger pull on the M9. I don't believe there has ever been an accidental discharge of a P250, and DoD would have had the interchangeability of FCUs that they required for the M17/M18 along with an 8 pound trigger pull. JMHO.

 

[M14sRock]

Milwaukee PD is the Agency that would not let Sig sweep this issue under the rug. One of their Officers had an issue 320 in his issue holster, in the trunk of his issue vehicle, parked in his garage. In the middle of the night, he heard a 'bang' and went to investigate. That pistol had fired in the holster, in the trunk, and with absolutely nothing jostling it. It was caught on his security camera. That was just one of what has been described to me as 'too many UD's to count' with Milwaukee PD.

There was a Youtube video of an Asian USPSA shooter at a match with his brand new, unfired X5 Legion. At the RO's command he 'made ready', chambered a round of factory ammo, and slipped the pistol into his Kydex competition holster. He raised his hands above his shoulders and before the timer 'beeped' the X5 went off in the holster. All on video. However, I can no longer find that video.

A good buddy of mine has a couple of 320s for USPSA. Graygunned out with amazing triggers, he shoots them like laser beams. But a few years ago I told him 'You'll be sorry when it goes off in your holster', and then it did, We were at a USPSA match, he had just made ready, and as the muzzle entered the holster mouth it went off. I was watching his gun like a hawk, because I'd been expecting it to do this for years. Nothing was even close to the trigger. But in this instance, when he sent it to Bruce Gray to check out, it was determined that he had inadvertently mixed a factory part into his Grayguns parts during a strip and clean. In my mind, this adds credence to the 'tolerance stacking' idea.

So in my opinion, if it IS tolerance stacking, it is still a serious problem because there are too many small parts in there. I sold my 320 (one of the early ones), mostly because I no longer trusted it completely. It was an extra pistol anyway.

So if anyone needs some mags with +5 floorplates or a tungsten infused X5 grip frame with magwell, hit me up.

 

[Tom Garrett]

I sold my 320 before the auto discharge issues came up. Dry firing felt like a toy gun. I simply didn’t like the gun. Got my $ back, because it’s a plastic fantastic gun. Just getting to like steel and wood more and more.

 

[GnarlsR2]

From a different perspective…

The most popular firearm in the world is the Sig Sauer P365.

Sig Sauer is currently producing the leading edge of all firearm technologies.

Ford Pinto’s exploding gas tanks did not destroy Ford, who now is selling the most popular vehicle in the industry – the Ford F150.

General Motors’ faulty ignition switch did not destroy GM, who now is producing one of the most popular vehicles in the USA – Chevrolet Silverado.

Samsung’s exploding batteries did not destroy Samsung, now is selling THE most popular android cell phone in the industry.

The Chernobyl nuclear disaster did not destroy the use of nuclear power world-wide, in fact nuclear power will soon become THE most viable, cleanest, and safest renewable energy source.

The P320/MXX debacle will most likely NOT destroy Sig Sauer as they move to become the world’s largest producer of firearm technology.

 

[Neumann]

SIG upgraded the P320 (M17 and M18) with a better disconnect mechanism and second notch in the sear, and firing pin block for safety. The M17 and M18 have a thumb safety, with a good detent, to block the trigger. The trigger is now much lighter for improved drop safety. The trigger now has a relatively long takeup to disengage the added safety measures. SIG has a website where you can review the updates in detail, and check the upgrade against your serial number.

Police use retention holsters which may intrude on the trigger guard. Atmorers must stay up to date on needed updates..

 

[biku324]

SIG upgraded the P320 (M17 and M18) with a better disconnect mechanism and second notch in the sear, and firing pin block for safety. The M17 and M18 have a thumb safety, with a good detent, to block the trigger. The trigger is now much lighter for improved drop safety. The trigger now has a relatively long takeup to disengage the added safety measures. SIG has a website where you can review the updates in detail, and check the upgrade against your serial number.

Police use retention holsters which may intrude on the trigger guard. Atmorers must stay up to date on needed updates..

Not with other pistols.

 

[Benton Quest]

My only Sigs are a P220 and a P226 I've had for decades. They're accurate and very safe. I realize they're not the latest design but latest design may not mean better design. Granted, I'm behind the times, but am I really missing out on anything?

I don't know. Do you feel you are missing out that your guns are not trying to kill you?

 

[rockquarry]

I don't know. Do you feel you are missing out that your guns are not trying to kill you?

No, I don't. Based on that premise, I guess I'm not missing out on anything after all.

I suppose it's also important to remember that newer/ modern doesn't mean "better" much of the time. However, it always equates to promoting/ marketing/ hustling a product. Nothing wrong with that if the product is a genuine improvement over what preceded it.

 

[biku324]

No, I don't. Based on that premise, I guess I'm not missing out on anything after all.

I suppose it's also important to remember that newer/ modern doesn't mean "better" much of the time. However, it always equates to promoting/ marketing/ hustling a product. Nothing wrong with that if the product is a genuine improvement over what preceded it.

Our South African Firearms trainers in Mogadishu had only a fine contempt for rifles, pistols, and shotguns with too much "...Gucci."

 

[M14sRock]

From a different perspective…

The most popular firearm in the world is the Sig Sauer P365.

Sig Sauer is currently producing the leading edge of all firearm technologies.

Ford Pinto’s exploding gas tanks did not destroy Ford, who now is selling the most popular vehicle in the industry – the Ford F150.

General Motors’ faulty ignition switch did not destroy GM, who now is producing one of the most popular vehicles in the USA – Chevrolet Silverado.

Samsung’s exploding batteries did not destroy Samsung, now is selling THE most popular android cell phone in the industry.

The Chernobyl nuclear disaster did not destroy the use of nuclear power world-wide, in fact nuclear power will soon become THE most viable, cleanest, and safest renewable energy source.

The P320/MXX debacle will most likely NOT destroy Sig Sauer as they move to become the world’s largest producer of firearm technology.

I think the distinction here is that the Company has not even remotely agreed that there might be a problem, and they've swept as many of the reports under the rug as possible.

 

[SFury79]

The P320/MXX debacle will most likely NOT destroy Sig Sauer as they move to become the world’s largest producer of firearm technology.

Actually, everything they are doing wrong will end their reign. Their leadership is more akin to the now defunct leadership that destroyed Remington. Their hold on the market is breaking.

Too many QC issues. The 320 debacle will speed the process of self-implosion along exponentially if, really more of a when, they lose a lawsuit. The management is following the path of greed and self-destruction. It doesn't matter how good the product once was, it only matters how good it is today.

 

[Thaddeus Beauregard]

SIG upgraded the P320 (M17 and M18) with a better disconnect mechanism and second notch in the sear, and firing pin block for safety. The M17 and M18 have a thumb safety, with a good detent, to block the trigger. The trigger is now much lighter for improved drop safety. The trigger now has a relatively long takeup to disengage the added safety measures. SIG has a website where you can review the updates in detail, and check the upgrade against your serial number.

Police use retention holsters which may intrude on the trigger guard. Atmorers must stay up to date on needed updates..

And all of the recent ADs within the past couple years have taken place AFTER all of those updates. The P320 always had the striker block safety from introduction. It is a weird design and has failed to stop the striker in tests for various reasons because it is a more finicky design than a simple coil spring and plunger like Glock and most other striker fired pistols use, including Sig's own P365.

 

[LVSteve]

And all of the recent ADs within the past couple years have taken place AFTER all of those updates. The P320 always had the striker block safety from introduction. It is a weird design and has failed to stop the striker in tests for various reasons because it is a more finicky design than a simple coil spring and plunger like Glock and most other striker fired pistols use, including Sig's own P365.

As Bill Engvall might say, "...and here's your sign."

 

[Onomea]

... It is a weird design and has failed to stop the striker in tests ...

Could you provide links or cite these tests for us?

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

FWIW, Sig should have updated their P250 DAO. All of mine have Armory Craft triggers with a 6 - 7 pound DAO trigger pull. During my 3 decades in the US Army, the requirement for the 1911A1 was an 8 pound trigger pull. Same with the Single Action trigger pull on the M9. I don't believe there has ever been an accidental discharge of a P250, and DoD would have had the interchangeability of FCUs that they required for the M17/M18 along with an 8 pound trigger pull. JMHO.

My son and I were talking before I left for work this evening. We both had a hearty laugh when we considered "What if..." In this case, "What if SIG's response to this whole scandal is to "upgrade" all the 320 triggers with....P250 triggers (And slide assemblies) ?" I could see the marketing now. "SECOND STRIKE CAPABILITY! UNPARALELED SIG EXCELLENCE! SMOOTHEST DAO TRIGGER MADE TODAY!" (And one of the few still made)

To my way of thinking, there is an absolute glut of fantastic plastic available to us today. Why even remotely take a chance with one that has the risk or even just the reputation for uncommanded detonation, especially when it is otherwise broadly unremarkable within it's category? Of course, that way of thinking just satisfies me. Not sure how I'd feel if I already had a collection of them. I did sell one to a fellow Officer. I'm wondering if I should offer him his money back for it? Not that I really think he'd ever have an AD. He never loads it or takes it out of the safe. But I take my integrity darn seriously, and I don't want to provide any potential fuel for malicious gossip. I probably need to make the offer. Nine pages here right now, and I'm the idiot that just might buy one. That figgers....lol

 

[Thaddeus Beauregard]

Could you provide links or cite these tests for us?

Yes, the FBI test for the Michigan State Police is one. It is attached. There are several others shown on Youtube as well. Do a search and you should find them. All of those tests where the sear is pressed down with a punch from the rear of the slide are done specifically to check that the striker block is working as intended by eliminating trigger and trigger bar movement from the equation. In some, the gun passed; in others it failed. The point is, if the torsion spring isn't fully seated on its post, or one of the legs of the torsion spring isn't engaging the leg of the striker block correctly, it can AND HAS failed to stop the striker from impacting the primer when the sear is defeated. It is a pizz poor design and is more mechanically complex and less foolproof than the simple coil spring and plunger design used on Glocks and nearly every other striker fired pistol on the market.

Yes, I realize that Sig is claiming that the FBI test wasn't reproducible and all, but Sig cannot be relied upon to provide honest information given their obvious conflict of interest and their steadfast denials of design issues at every step of this P320 controversy.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. People can choose to believe whatever they wish. But I also believe where there's smoke, there's fire, and after all of the injuries and deaths from this pistol when people were not touching the trigger at the time, it's hard to believe that all of these are the result of negligence. Even if all of the AD incidents reported with this gun are caused by user error and careless handling, then why is this only happening with the P320? Why isn't it also happening with Sig's own P365? If a gun is so easily induced to AD and other competing guns don't seem to have that same problem, then isn't it fair to question why, and couldn't this be indicative that perhaps it's a poor design? I think these are fair questions to ask.

 

[Thaddeus Beauregard]

Here is one demonstration on YouTube:


There are several others if you're interested in searching for them. Believe what you will.

And yes, I realize that in normal use, you will never have an object protrude into the back of the slide and press down on the sear... however, that isn't the point. The purpose of this test is to eliminate trigger and trigger bar movement so that the striker block safety should remain in "safe" position. If for some reason the striker foot slips off the sear, the striker block safety should arrest the striker from hitting a primer, and these tests are a way of checking for proper function of the striker block.

 

[Onomea]

Thanks, Beauregard.

The FBI test is the only one by an "official expert" (?) lab I am aware of as well. We discussed it earlier in this thread, and it is followed, in post #118, by a YouTube guy who could not replicate the results, then, later in the thread, other YouTube guys, as per your post above, who could.

Lotta YouTube guys out there...

(Frankly, I have trouble following the inner workings of the P320 lockwork or trigger group or whatever the innards that control firing are called, but, yes, jamming a punch in there to induce failure does seem an improper testing method to me. See Sig's comments below.)

Here is a 7/24/25 Sig release which includes an FBI email* to Sig discussing the subsequent FBI testing which was unable to repeat the failures.

https://soldiersystems.net/wp-conte...Statement-to-FL-LE.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

(I will note here that the site above appears credible, when I looked into it, but I do wonder why I cannot find Sig's 7/24 statement on their own site...)

The Sig statement also states that the Michigan State Police are now back to issuing the M18 to troopers.

This 7/17/25 article reviews the FBI initial testing, and then the subsequent FBI and Sig testing under mutually agreeable conditions: https://www.twz.com/land/army-makin...0-derived-pistols-after-concerning-fbi-report

In it, Sig comments are quoted on why it thinks the initial FBI test was not proper:

“Specifically, Sig explained that forcing the sear downward with a punch was moving the trigger bar forward and, as a result, the trigger to the rear since the sear is in constant contact with the trigger bar,” he continued. “Sig expressed that this was not a proper representation of the striker slipping off of the sear’s primary notch from a parallel/grip-down drop. Sig also noted that the FBI’s concern of the striker safety spring movement on the striker assembly post after getting hit with a hammer was unwarranted due to the viewing window that was cut into the slide that sacrificed the sidewall support of the striker safety spring.”

“After the initial report was submitted, Sig Sauer and its engineers worked in cooperation with the FBI and Michigan State Police to design a fixture that all agreed would create a more controlled testing protocol for striker/sear slippage,” St. John added. “Using that fixture, the FBI forced the sear off of the primary notch 565 times with 19EA different striker assemblies with zero indents on the primer (no fires).”

FWIW. (Not sure what that "19EA" means, but it was in the document I quoted so I left it there.)

* The FBI email linked in the article is hard to read. Here is a clean text version as reproduced by ChatGPT: