617-6 .22 Kaboom

Sevenshooter · May 9, 2011

Hi.

I had my new 617 out today, going through Federal Bulk Pak ammo, which I shoot a ton of and have not had any problems.

I reloaded the cylinder, started shooting and Pow! Loud detonation and pieces of lead sprayed out the sides of the cyl.

Turns out, the round under the firing pin fired, but so did the round on both sides of it. It was the first shot after a reload so there was a live round on both sides of the first round fired. The rounds on either side of the one lined up with the barrel went off and the bullets just disintigrated on the edge of the barrel and the frame, and on the blast shield side you can see where the rounds shoved back out of the cyl and left marks on the blast shield. The brass left in those two cylinder bores was twisted and deformed.

The cyl. needed a little smack to get it open, but I don't see where it did any damage. Cleaned it up a bit, checked it out and kept shooting. I think it is ok. Still shot dead on and accurate. Barrel clean, cylinder rotates and locks up like it should.

My question is, what the heck would have lit off the 2 adjacent rounds? Is it because the 10 rnd. cyl. has the bores so close together? At first I thought the one round that the firing pin hit was loaded too hot (Federal error?) and the shock set off the other two?

This is a new one for me. Anyone out there heard of this happening on a 10 rnd. .22?

Thanks for any input.

Ss

Troystat · May 9, 2011

Very weird I am glad you were not hurt, do you have pictures?

robctwo · May 9, 2011

Very weird. I shot about 300 Federal bulk out of mine this weekend. Probably 5,000 through it since new. Never even suspected the possibility of volunteers going off out of sequence. What would they hit to detonate them?

KEN L · May 10, 2011

Technically that wasn't a kaboom. Though at the time you probably thought it was. Kabooms cause guns to come unglued, as in destroyed and hopefully not the operator too! Never heard of that happening with a rimfire, but fortunately you have a very stout gun. Might want to run that by S&W's experts to see what they think..........

Sevenshooter · May 10, 2011

KEN L said:
Technically that wasn't a kaboom. Though at the time you probably thought it was. Kabooms cause guns to come unglued, as in destroyed and hopefully not the operator too! Never heard of that happening with a rimfire, but fortunately you have a very stout gun. Might want to run that by S&W's experts to see what they think..........

True, but on a rimfire, I think it is as close to a Kaboom as one would get!

I am stumped on what happened. I thought I'd put it out here just to see if anyone had heard of it happening.

Ammo was clean and good, Federal Bulk Pack, nothing to indicate a problem may arise.

At that point my Son and I had been shooting the gun for quite a while, with a few hundred rounds through it. Plus other rimfires all using the Bulk Pack ammo.

After the Boom, the cylinder needed a little bump by hand to open it due to the two rounds that lit off sprayed lead on the cyl. face and the edge of the barrel, and it was causing the cyl not to clear the barrel to open it up. Once it opened, I was able to scrape the lead away with my fingernail and a steel pick, Boresnaked the barrel, looked everything over, loaded it again and kept on shooting. No more problems. I didn't take pictures 'cause it cleaned up so quick, and I really could not find anything that left the gun messed up in any way. I did save the two rounds that went off by themselves. Strange looking, the brass it was like twisted and flattened and no sign of either bullet left in the cylinder in tact. They sprayed out all over. Just puzzling is all.

Another reason to wear glasses at the range and also to be sure the grip you use on a revolver keeps your fingers and hand away from the blast area of the cylinder.

I did get a few cuts on my left thumb, and lead sprayed on the bench we were shooting from and hit my Son's arm, he was off to my right...

The only thing I can think of is that the round under the firing pin fired and for some reason, with that 10 round cyl. having the bores as close as they are, the adjacent rnds. were touched off by something. The round that fired from the firing pin looked normal. It hadn't blown out and hit the other two.

May be one of those things that never happens again... I hope!

Thanks for the input.

Ss

vipermd · May 10, 2011

I am glad you and your son are OK. I would talk to S&W and federal. I have never heard of a multiple detonation in a rimfire. I have never had a 22 lr that deformed brass, prob due to cylinder/ chamber containing it. If it was me I would want to know if it was the gun or ammo or both?? Please let us know. Be Safe.

red9 · May 10, 2011

Multiple detonation (technically, sympathetic discharge) is not unheard of in rimfires, but is more common in lightweight revolvers that recoil more. Is there some type of a shoulder behind the head of those cartridges that would indent or deform the rim? The chance of this occurring is one of the reasons for the existence of the recoil shield; there have been cases of significant injury with the little NAA/Freedom Arms mini-revolvers that lack one.

Bob

tomcatt51 · May 10, 2011

Are there firing pin dingers (with raised edges) in the rim recesses from dry firing?

Sevenshooter · May 10, 2011

tomcatt51 said:
Are there firing pin dingers (with raised edges) in the rim recesses from dry firing?

No, I always keep spent rounds in the cyl to dry fire.

I know it does sound impossible for it to happen, and I checked everything I could to see if perhaps something was touching the rims of those two but I found nothing. I was firing a bunch of CCI Stingers also without a hitch. With those having a bit more energy you'd think if something was going to light off the adjacent rounds the Stingers would have. It was the Fed. Bulk Pak rounds that went boom... Crazy.

I will send an e-mail to S&W and to Federal and see what I get back.

I'll take a pic of the two shells that went off and try to show where the two that lit by themselves left a mark on the blast shield. The mark is still there after I cleaned the gun. I will post 'em soon as I get a chance.

Thanks for readin' the post!

Ss

KiaTia · May 10, 2011

Wow this is alarming I have been letting me ten year old shoot my 617-6 with bulk, Walmart, Federal ammo. If you talk with S&W or federal please keep us updated. Glad to hear no one was hurt.

brucev · May 10, 2011

This is an issue for S&W and Federal to handle. Let them handle it. Could be that the ammunition has a problem. Less likely is that the revolver has a problem. Regardless, it merits their attention. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

gregintenn · May 10, 2011

I hope it doesn't turn out to be the ammunition. I have a mountain of that stuff.

Sevenshooter · May 11, 2011

*Pics Update*

KiaTia said:
Wow this is alarming I have been letting me ten year old shoot my 617-6 with bulk, Walmart, Federal ammo. If you talk with S&W or federal please keep us updated. Glad to hear no one was hurt.

Uh-Oh! There is a 10 year old out there somewhere hating me right about now!

Seriously, I shoot mainly all Walmart Federal Bulk Pack .22 ammo in all my rimfires. I've shot thousands of them, and never a hitch, and I'll continue to buy them and shoot them.

When this happened to my 617, my son and I had already shot a hundred or so Federals through it, and afterwards when I cleaned it up and inspected it, we put a couple hundred more through it... from the same box of ammo. Shot a couple hundred CCI Stingers and Mini Mags too with no problems.

I'm not worried about the gun having a problem.

I took some pics of what the rounds looked like.

I was wrong posting that the rounds that went boom were on either side of the round under the firing pin. Upon close insp. with a 4x loupe, I see the really twisted round has a firing pin strike mark on it. So, that was under the pin and went off, setting the round next in line off and that one left the mark on the blast shield.

I have no idea what would have caused the round hit with the firing pin to deform as it did.

Maybe someone looking at the pics has seen something like this before.

I don't mean to go on and on with this thread, but it is puzzling to me what happened, and it may just be one of those unexplainable "things".

I will keep shooting the 617 without worry, and using the Federal Bulk Pack ammo since nothing jumps out at me pointing to a problem.

Ss

bigmoose · May 11, 2011

Sevenshooter said:
I don't mean to go on and on with this thread, but it is puzzling to me what happened, and it may just be one of those unexplainable "things".

I am glad you have taken the time to add information and pictures. This type of thread is valuable, addressing a safety issue.

The edges (or corners) on the extractor seem to be protruding slightly into some of the chambers. Anybody notice that, or care to comment?

austintexas · May 11, 2011

Could it possibly be that there was a fault in the firing pin round and the gases that twisted the case and excaped to the rear on both sides setting off the adjacent rounds?

SWCA 892

CAJUNLAWYER · May 11, 2011

Well it's a pretty safe bet you were not using reloads-could be a problem with the 10 shots????? Look at the sharp edges on the recoil shield where the cases back up against-picture 3-maybe it's that. In any event keep us posted.

charlix · May 11, 2011

case head failure and jet of gas detonated next round?????

Sevenshooter · May 12, 2011

I contacted Federal Cartridge Co., left a voicemail. They called back the next day and want me to send in the spent shells so their metal dept. can insp. and try to figure what happened.

They were truly concerned. I'll send 'em in and see what they find. The man on the phone said he'd let me know what they find.

He also said that Federal would replace my ammo. I didn't have the nerve to ask whether he meant the whole Bulk Pack box... or just those two rounds.

I'll post back what they say.

If nothing else from this thread, take away the reminder that no matter what caliber you are shooting, you never know when something out of your control could go wrong. Always best to have safety glasses on and proper hold on the gun, and also who is standing perhaps too close to the shooter should something like this ever happen again, 'cause fragments of lead did spray out the sides of the gun and hit what was close to me.

Take care!

Ss

Maximumbob54 · May 12, 2011

From seeing the pictures my guesses are the extractor may have cut into the side of the cartridges and/or a case head ruptured causing this all to happen. Either way I would have that extractor replaced.

vipermd · May 13, 2011

Ammo comp tend to be sensitive amount problems. I contacted Rem on a 30-06 that would not go off. I wanted to give them the cartridge, and the other last two unfired cartridges. I figured they may avert difficulties. They were pleasant and sent me a coupon for a few boxes of ammo even though I explained that there ammo had always performed perfect for me. Federal may find a problem that will prevent a major problem in the future. Be Safe.

617-6 .22 Kaboom

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