Armed Customer Halts Violent Attack in Party Store - Would You Intervene?

[Kanewpadle]

Well, why would you stay? My rule is that if the incident is not endangering me or mine, I'm out . . .

Sorry buddy. But I don't believe that for a minute. After helping people all of your adult life, it's something that you just don't turn off.

I think you would help. Very carefully.

I don't think my wife would approve much if I just stood there. After she was safe of course.

 

[Kodiakco]

About 15 years ago an old man sitting on a bench down town is attacked and beaten by a 18 year old and 2 around 16.
People watched and did nothing but call 911.
The old man had a broken jaw, cracked eye socket and internal body damage.
Cops caught the 3 a few blocks away 20 minutes later.
They stated that he had called them the "N" word.
He spent the next 3 months in the hospital and died.
The DA said he could not charge any of them with any other charges of homicide since so much time had past.
6 months for assault for the 18 year old and some Juvenal time for the other two....

Wonder how the people who just watched and just called 911 felt.
Oh well, he was old and would have died sometime anyway...

Please post a link to the news article, I don't believe they couldn't be charged with murder IF what they did was the cause of his death. Murder has no statue of limitations AFAIK.

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

 

[LAA]

Six years I go, I collided with a deer on a motorcycle at 65 mph. I was thrown over the windshield. I was conscious on the side of the road, 50 yards past the collusion. I know that three vehicles passed without stopping. They may have called 911, I don't know. I thought perhaps I was too far off the side of the road, for anyone to see me. Turns out I was only five feet off the side.

Some people just don't want to get involved, if it looks potentially deadly. Happily, for me, a woman did stop. If she hadn't, I would have died. My left lung had already shut down from internal bleeding/fluids, and my right lung would have done the same. It's good that some people will still get involved, even if it's not their personal danger.

 

[Wise_A]

You are making a faulty comparison, LAA. Helping an injured motorist carries with it relatively little risk--namely, being struck by a vehicle (low chance), and being ambushed (low probability in most areas). Both can be mitigated.

Intervening in a physical altercation you're not involved in, especially between two related adults, carries with it rather significant risks and dangers.

Whatever the course of action selected, it demands a very large amount of caution. You are, after all, breaking a cardinal rule of self-defense by voluntarily engaging in an altercation.

 

[Smoke]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Edmund Burke

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire 

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

"You can't believe everything you read on the Internet"

Congressman David Crockett (D) Tennessee

 

[Kodiakco]

"You can't believe everything you read on the Internet"

Congressman David Crockett (D) Tennessee

I thought it was Abraham Lincoln that said that!?!

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

 

[LAA]

You are making a faulty comparison, LAA. Helping an injured motorist carries with it relatively little risk--namely, being struck by a vehicle (low chance), and being ambushed (low probability in most areas). Both can be mitigated.

Intervening in a physical altercation you're not involved in, especially between two related adults, carries with it rather significant risks and dangers.

Whatever the course of action selected, it demands a very large amount of caution. You are, after all, breaking a cardinal rule of self-defense by voluntarily engaging in an altercation.

I'm highly aware of the pitfalls, and appropriate actions. I don't need a lecture. On the other hand, it's not my mentality, to just always walk away. For some around here, that seems to be the only option.

 

[Smoke]

The only domestic violence incident I've ever been involved in as a security guard was a couple who's argument was just starting to get physicAL in the parking garage I worked in.

My partner and I separated them and asked the woman if she wanted us to call the police. She said she wanted us to mind our business and leave her and her man alone. My partner and I excused ourselves and continued our rounds.

By the time we got to the top level we couple see the couple in the next block and the guy was beating the hell out of the woman. We called the police who showed up while we were on the phone. A half hour or so later the cops stopped by the garage and informed us the woman refused to press charges.

I have no problem calling the cops but I'm not getting into someone else's fight

 

[Absalom]

Neither "personal rules" not witty sayings ultimately mean anything in a situation like this. You can't pre-package your response, simply because most of us won't ever run into such a situation, let alone often enough to learn the best response. Let's set aside the "domestic violence and cops" sideline here since there is no indication whatsoever that this was known to the intervening Good Samaritan.

So it comes down to a term that hasn't been mentioned here often enough: GOOD JUDGMENT.

Nobody would expect you to (or for that matter want you) to insert yourself into a situation that is obviously too big for you: guns already out, multiple assailants, ambush potential, unclear good and bad sides etc., just like no one would expect you to jump in after a drowning victim if you can't swim.

But if the situation appears to require quick action and in your judgment is controllable with acceptable risk, I believe there is a moral obligation to act. At what point that obligation kicks in depends on your judgment, based on your abilities. That point may be quite different for, say, a highly trained soldier, compared to a retired accountant, but it exists for everybody.

I would expect a military vet to have developed better judgment than most civilians in that respect, and that certainly seems to apply here. He intervened, and when the bad guy escalated, the vet was prepared to respond. I dare speculate that if he had looked in and seen the bad guy hold up the place with a shotgun, he would NOT have walked in, but thought of something else. Judgment call.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Between two males, yeah. Between a male and female.......if you call 911, by the time police arrive, it will be to late.

What if the person being assaulted was you when you were unable to protect yourself for what ever reason? Would you just want us to call 911?

If I witness through a window, a punch thrown at a clerk , I'm calling 911. Unless the clerk is my family, then I'd probably turn into "Super-Grandma". Otherwise, I'm just a sick old woman with a gun, and might make the situation worse than it otherwise might be, if I enter the store.

A persons got to know her limitations, but I'm not suggesting what you or anyone else should do.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Please post a link to the news article, I don't believe they couldn't be charged with murder IF what they did was the cause of his death. Murder has no statue of limitations AFAIK.

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

It is possible that the man's medical history would muddy the waters as to the true cause of death if he survived for three months after the attack, and that is what I suspect the DA meant . . .

 

[digiroc]

There are sheep and there are sheep dogs.
There are good dogs, bad dogs, and mad dogs.

Not having a dog in that fight does not make me a sheep.

I'm nearly 70 and i couldn't let that go with only a phone call on my way out.

digiroc

 

[Kodiakco]

There are sheep and there are sheep dogs.
There are good dogs, bad dogs, and mad dogs.

Not having a dog in that fight does not make me a sheep.

I'm nearly 70 and i couldn't let that go with only a phone call on my way out.

digiroc

The problem I have with this term is that it implies some sort of duty. A real sheepdog has a job. He is fed, watered, and given a place to sleep because he protects the sheep. He has a duty to the sheep. The term implies also implies some form of authority over the sheep. A real sheepdog herds the sheep. Without a badge, you have zero authority. You also have zero responsibility to the 'sheep' in this metaphor.

I'm Not a Sheepdog (and you shouldn't be either) | The Arms Guide

We would rather fight than run. We would rather put ourselves at risk than allow evil to go unchecked. But regardless of the level of training and skill a person has, the multiple layers of risk that are inherent in any shooting situation stack the deck against playing the hero unless there is no other alternative.

I'm Not Your Sheepdog

I like this analogy the best. I am a "porcupine"!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[moralem]

It is possible that the man's medical history would muddy the waters as to the true cause of death if he survived for three months after the attack, and that is what I suspect the DA meant . . .

The question would be did he die from his injuries from the attack or were his age or pre-existing medical conditions the cause of his death or contributed significantly. It is a fine line technically......we have become a society afraid of litigation and of what things look like to others for fear we be labeled something. Could they have prosecuted those kids sure, but the DA does not want to look bad.

 

[Wise_A]

That point may be quite different for, say, a highly trained soldier, compared to a retired accountant, but it exists for everybody.

I would expect a military vet to have developed better judgment than most civilians in that respect, and that certainly seems to apply here.

Why? What part of Basic Training covered intervening in public domestic violence incidents? What makes agreeing with your point of view "good judgment"?

In this instance, the *** in question could have turned around, drawn his own concealed pistol, and blown the would-be hero away.

I'm highly aware of the pitfalls, and appropriate actions. I don't need a lecture. On the other hand, it's not my mentality, to just always walk away. For some around here, that seems to be the only option.

Equally, it appears that many are eager to jump right in.

I agree--there is no hard-and-fast one-size-fits-all rule. Well, maybe one. Namely, is there an imminent and unavoidable risk of grave injury or death?

I'm nearly 70 and i couldn't let that go with only a phone call on my way out.

I'm 31. I would like to have at least another 31 incarceration-free years above ground. I can very easily do my civic duty with my gun holstered and a cell phone in hand.

 

[hangnoose]

WHO KNOWS/CAN'T PREDICT.

When meeting my future wife's relatives for the first time a drunk/bullying uncle raised a hand to her, I reacted & he was on his back before I had a chance to think of what I was doing, so IDK. A well thrown soup can may have been a better initial weapon, in that instance, with 20/20 hindsight. In some way I'd have intervened, verbally first hopefully.

 

[Bpx4st]

I'm a man, 6' 1", about 230 lbs. & 62 y.o. But I also have a heart condition, bad back, just had a hip replaced & need the other done, same with knees 1&1, have had hand to hand training when younger but you can bet your sweet bippy...if somebody jumped my ***, I would do what I could to defend...shoot them if possible...but if it was looking like a beat down, I would PRAY that some other "person" would step up & help!

"Pride cometh before a fall"...& I'm too old & worn out to fall...but not too prideful to
live & I'm hoping to do that a while longer.
You can also bet your bottom dollar I would jump right into the mix if I saw someone outnumbered or being abused & I ain't no hero but I am sick of wathcing bystanders on YouTube, videoing some unfortunate soul getting the **** beat out of them & not lifting a finger to help.

I carry for me & mine...but also for you. I refuse to be a sheep. If some call that trying to be a Rambo, I hope there's another like that if it happens to me. JMHO

Wayne

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk

 

[Bpx4st]

Between two males, yeah. Between a male and female.......if you call 911, by the time police arrive, it will be to late.

What if the person being assaulted was you when you were unable to protect yourself for what ever reason? Would you just want us to call 911?

This was who I was qouting. Good thing I don't depend on editing for a living.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk

 

[StakeOut]

How to make America Great Again....get the garbage off the streets and keep it off.The liberal turnstile justice system for repeat offenders just doesn't work.

 

[dougb1946]

Be real embarrassing to step in, get involved, and have the male undercover cop bust you for interfering while he was arresting a drug dealer who was resisting. You don't know. Or he pulls a gun and shoots you. And gets away with it because you pulled first.

My instructor pointed out multiple times that you only use the gun to protect self and family and even then only as a last resort.

I am not a cop, my brother is. I don't have the training, my brother does. I keep out of it, and my brother has been retired for years so he does also.