Coronavirus and Deadly Force

federali

federali

Absent Comrade
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
3,081
Reaction score
7,548
Location
Cary, NC
I lived most of my life in New York State and I'm most familiar with their statutes of when deadly force may be used. One of the justifications for deadly force, and assuming you don't have a safe means of retreat (NYS), is an assault likely to result in a "disfigurement or protracted impairment of health." There are YouTube surveillance videos of innocent people being stabbed with syringes and now, people claiming to have the Coronavirus are spitting on other people, particularly police officers.
Six people who coughed or spit on cops and said they had coronavirus could go to prison for years - nj.com

This is a tough call. How do you prove this unless the act is caught on video? What say you?
 
Register to hide this ad
I can see where a deadly force encounter with a coughing or spitting person could end badly for all involved.

I think that the harsh penalties announced for 'threats' of this nature will deter most folks from this behavior.....just wait until the Feds start hitting them with felony terrorism charges....probably won't stop it all, but may slow that behavior.

BTW - what caliber is best for a viral spreader? :D
 
My guess is the threat can easily be verified (if the perpetrator is caught) with one of the rapid diagnostic tests coming out in large numbers soon. I am guessing spitting is already an assault but (like getting stuck with an infected needle) the penalties would ramp up steeply if the test is positive.
 
Its probably best not to shoot people for coughing on you, purposely or not. What happened to the good old days when we just knocked people out for getting outside the lines? I've only shot people that were an immediate threat to my life, and I sleep well at night. I question how I would sleep if I shot a person for for coughing on me, I also question where I would be sleeping; home vs. prison.
 
In North Carolina there are 43 District Attorneys. It would be up to each individual DA's interpretation of the law(s) as to what, if any, charges would be prosecuted or whether use of force is justified. As they are elected officials there would be other variables considered, other than the letter of the law, in their decision calculus.
 
How often is this REALLY happening? I suppose one could consider it "assault".

In the state where I live, the statute reads "if the action of the other person is such that it would cause a reasonable person to fear for his or her safety", then deadly force can be deployed in defense of one's own life, or the lives of others.

Worrying about this one will not take up much of my time.
 
I lived in Manhattan during the height of the aids epidemic circa 1990. And people threatened to inject needles full of aids infected blood. No one was shot. Some people were injected.

I remember due to privacy the perpetrators could not be forced to take an aids test. Criminal Rights of course.
 
Last edited:
If we are now at a Point where coughing on someone results in being shot by police we are in a Soviet Republic, covid 19 or not. Coughing is not deadly force.
 
Last edited:
If you get the virus, you have maybe a 2% chance of dying depending on your age and general health.

And if you get spat on, you may not contract the disease.

The guy doing the spitting may not even have the disease. And even if he does, you may not be infected.

IMHO this would not be a direct enough threat to justify lethal force.

Punching him in the nose, or some other physical means to stop him, would seem appropriate.
 
Last edited:
If it's caught on tape, convict and have it on continuous loop in his cell for the duration.
 
Triathloncoach said:
I lived in Manhattan during the height of the aids epidemic circa 1990. And people threatened to inject needles full of aids infected blood. No one was shot. Some people were injected.

I remember due to privacy the perpetrators could not be forced to take an aids test. Criminal Rights of course.
Click to expand...

A search warrant takes care of the privacy issues...
 
murphydog said:
My guess is the threat can easily be verified (if the perpetrator is caught) with one of the rapid diagnostic tests coming out in large numbers soon. I am guessing spitting is already an assault but (like getting stuck with an infected needle) the penalties would ramp up steeply if the test is positive.
Click to expand...

That is funny! If you are outside a federally designated hotspot, you can hold your breath for the next six weeks or longer to get a test.
 
That is like asking if it is ok to shoot someone for coughing on if they have a cold.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk
 
Tell him you have it too, and cough back at him.

So far as shooting him, I'd guess it would be applauded now, since it adds to the nation's fear. But most likely the court case will drag on until after the hysteria, when actual facts and statistics may be available. THEN they'll be asking you why you shot someone over a cold.
 
I can't say it's an immediate threat. Therefore, I probably wouldn't draw my weapon. Every situation is different. If someone is acting irrationally, I might draw my gun.

My hat's off to law enforcement. Thank goodness I probably will never have to find out!
 
No doubt we will hear of someone being shot over being spit on. Just might make others think twice before being so stupid!
 
It would take a list of things to make deadly force reasonable:
  1. You would have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person has the virus before the act.
  2. You would have to be able to prove it was not accidental.
  3. You would have to prove intent
  4. You would need to be able to articulate all that to an ignorant jury in court.

I can't imagine the jury that would agree with your use of deadly force as of today. In this type of situation you will be guilty until proven innocent.
 
During these times, if I saw someone intentionally coughing or spitting on someone who couldn't defend themselves, and the perpetrator just seemed mean, as opposed to mentally ill, I would not shoot them, but would definitely attempt to knock them senseless.

But I can't imagine seeing that - here in Tacoma I believe it would be as likely as seeing a robbery or other assault.

As far as punishment goes, I think they should get jail time long enough to give Bubba alone time with them.
 
It's not so much the act, as it is the intent.

If he says hes got it and he spits on you, he is committing a terrorist attack.

If he said that and was coming at me, I'd shoot him in such a way that it would be fatal, so he can't complete his act.

If he already had committed the deed, I would bash his %^$#@ head in with something other than a firearm.

But that's just me. If he did the same thing to a LEO, I would support whatever the officer did.

People that act like a terrorist, should be treated like a terrorist.
 
federali said:
There are YouTube surveillance videos of innocent people being stabbed with syringes and now, people claiming to have the Coronavirus are spitting on other people, particularly police officers.
Click to expand...

Unless they're showing symptoms, I see no reason to believe it. Besides, based on what I understand about COVID-19, unless an infected person were to spit directly into your mouth or eyes, and you don't go touching the saliva with your hands then touching your eyes or mouth, your risk of infection is practically zero.

That being said, if someone with obvious symptoms were to spit on you, then I think you could easily justify shooting them in the leg or something to stop them and put distance between you before calling the police.
Also, it would obviously help to wipe off the saliva with a napkin or something then save it, that way you have DNA Evidence that they did in fact spit on you.
 
Covid19 is NOT a death sentence. Kill rate is tiny unless you are over 65 & have underlying conditions. So using deadly force for a might get sick & might die, yeah I see you losing that one.
 
Rastoff said:
It would take a list of things to make deadly force reasonable:
  1. You would have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person has the virus before the act.
  2. You would have to be able to prove it was not accidental.
  3. You would have to prove intent
  4. You would need to be able to articulate all that to an ignorant jury in court.

I can't imagine the jury that would agree with your use of deadly force as of today. In this type of situation you will be guilty until proven innocent.
Click to expand...
Even then, not everyone exposed gets the virus. Not everyone that gets the virus gets sick. Not everyone that gets sick is even hospitalized. So I just dont see any justification for shooting some nut job that spits on me. Spitting is an assault though so if his nose & jaw get busted in self defense, I'm ok with that. Self defense is about what you know to happen not that you are afraid something might happen.
Fwiw, people need to get a grip on their fear over this virus. It isnt ebola. If the feds would get out of the way, private sector would have theraputic treatment & we can all go back to something that looks mormal.
 
Last edited:
If someone came up trying to spit in my face, I'm thinking pepper spray would be an appropriate remedy. Whether they had coronavirus or not.
 
Foreknowledge?

If someone menaced you with a gun, you do not have to know whether or not its loaded, functional or even real before you act. Likewise, if someone is weaponizing the coronavirus and threatens to infect you for not turning over your wallet or car keys, this would seem to be enough. Lets face it, are you going to ask your assailant for a doctor's note?
 
There are ways to get blood evidence with less than lethal means. The spit does contain DNA, and a nose bleed leave a fair amount of blood on your fist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

F
Young Brothers Massacre, A tactical expert opinion.
Replies
21
Views
3K
tbob38
T
federali
The Home Invasion. Could you be Better Prepared?
2
Replies
50
Views
6K
Eddie Southgate
Eddie Southgate
the ringo kid
  • Locked
Here's the scoop getting you LTC in Texas.
2 3
Replies
61
Views
7K
Tinhack
Tinhack
RoyOdhner
Concealed Carry Worldview (YMMV)
Replies
18
Views
3K
Wise_A
W
federali
CCW Nightmare: What Would I Do?
2
Replies
53
Views
6K
steelslaver
steelslaver

Latest posts

Back
Top