DELAYED BLOWBACK DESIGN

[Engine49guy]

Didnt see any mention of the CZ52 above,
(Maybe I missed it), btw no mention of it in the posted Wikepedia link either,

A few years back they were plentiful at gun shows, still recall seeing them lined up on dealer tables and thinking...Yick...that's one ugly handgun..... Yet , slowly they started to grow on me and for a C note with 2 mags, a military holster, cleaning rod and a couple of boxes of HOT combloc copper wash PPSH SMG Tokorov ammo how could you go wrong ?
When I got it home I figured out how to remove the slide so I could check it was clean and functioning... (very easy btw, CZ52s come apart kinda like a Mauser HSC or HK4 with a takedown lock in the front top trigger guard housing )... After getting apart and peering into its innards I went.. What the ?
suddenly realizing it incorporated a miniature roller locking system...
(Btw I am a fan of the MG42, CETME, G3 and P7)....this made me appreciate that gun even more.

They are still out there and not that expensive if you can get past its aesthetics...
Some sites recommend replacing the rollers and firing pins with aftermarket stuff so do your research.

Ps...recall seeing some 9mm conversion kits out there back then as well.

 

[bc1023]

Didnt see any mention of the CZ52 above,
(Maybe I missed it), btw no mention of it in the posted Wikepedia link either.

That’s because the CZ 52 is not a delayed blowback. It’s a roller locking system, not a roller delayed blowback.

Completely different

 

[Engine49guy]

I understand it is a delayed roller locking system,
It's been a few years since it's been out of the safe, but while the CZ52 barrel is not fixed to the frame like HK P7 or Walther PPK, neither are the Mauser HSc or HK4 barrels which are simple blowback , always assumed the rollers locked the slide momentarily delaying until pressure dropped then unlocked allowing a delayed blowback.
Will have to do some research.
Btw the Wikepedia article did not include the CZ52 in with the roller locking guns either.

 

[bc1023]

I understand it is a delayed roller locking system,
It's been a few years since it's been out of the safe, but while the CZ52 barrel is not fixed to the frame like HK P7 or Walther PPK, neither are the Mauser HSc or HK4 barrels which are simple blowback , always assumed the rollers locked the slide momentarily delaying until pressure dropped then unlocked allowing a delayed blowback.
Will have to do some research.
Btw the Wikepedia article did not include the CZ52 in with the roller locking guns either.

Not every blowback has the barrel fixed to the frame.

I think some folks are overthinking this. The easiest way to tell if a gun is a blowback, delayed or otherwise, is to rack the slide slowly and watch. If the barrel and slide remain locked together for a millimeter or two, you have a locked breech. If the slide pulls away from the barrel instantly, you have a blowback of some kind.

Try that with your P7 and then with your CZ and let me know your findings. The CZ 52 is in no way a blowback pistol of any sort. It’s a locked breech pistol. Not sure what delay you’re referring to except that the rollers lock the barrel to the slide, thereby delaying the separation. You can say that about all locked breech designs.

A delayed blowback requires the gun to be fired to lock and delay the cycle. A locked breech does not.

 

[Engine49guy]

Found this World of guns cartoon cutaway slow mo of the CZ52 action,

While it does move linear to the rear
the barrel does move back with the slide while locked.
Still kinda neat, learn something new every day.

Ff to 2:00 mark if interested in seeing its function.
Slow Mo Of CZ 52 Pistol Firing (How It Works CZ 52 Semi-Automatic Pistol) - YouTube

 

[bc1023]

Found this World of guns cartoon cutaway slow mo of the CZ52 action,

While it does move linear to the rear
the barrel does move back with the slide while locked.
Still kinda neat, learn something new every day.

Ff to 2:00 mark if interested in seeing its function.
Slow Mo Of CZ 52 Pistol Firing (How It Works CZ 52 Semi-Automatic Pistol) - YouTube

Yes, its a locked breech. Many designs stay linear like that, such as a Walther P38 and Beretta 92 that use a falling block design. Not every design causes a barrel to drop or tilt.

Like I said, compare your CZ 52 and HK P7. One is a blowback, the other is not.

 

[2152hq]

The mid 50's Kimball (sp?) semiauto pistol in 30M1Carbine caliber was a delayed blowback.
It used the grooved/ringed chamber concept to delay opening of the slide. The expanded cartridge case was to grip those rings in the chamber walls and hold on for a moment till the chamber pressure fell.

It failed. Probably for a number of reasons along with the delayed blowback system it used.
I know the slide would batter the simple recoil stop in the frame ( a pin) upon recoil. That put many out of commission quickly.

But 30Carbine ammo was cheap then and at least one idea was to market a semiauto pistol that would function with it.
This one didn't make the grade.

 

[Andyd]

No. The difference is between locked-breech (barrel and slide move back together a bit before unlocking to allow the pressure to dissipate) and blowback (barrel is fixed, slide blows back). Now delayed blowback means the barrel is still fixed, there is no locked breech, but the slide’s or breechblock’s/bolt’s blowback is delayed by a mechanism to dissipate. As already mentioned, HK’s roller type is probably the most famous.

Yeah but wasn't that based on a Rheinmetall patent and used in the MG42?

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Delayed blowback, aka retarded blowback, is a fine design used on some of my favorite pistols. They're typically very accurate because of the fixed barrels. The downside is the internals accumulate fouling quickly and require frequent cleaning. It's a much more complex design than a gun with just a heavy slide and recoil spring.

The H&K P7's are one. They vent gasses into a chamber to slow the rearward movement of the slide, via a piston. It's basically the opposite of a gas operated semi-auto.

My other favorite is the Steyr GB. I've got three of them now; a standard model shooter, a NIB standard model and a military model. I also have two of their muzzle breaks, which are fairly scarce, reduce recoil even further and add to the "cool factor". These have internal ports and piston rings on the barrel, that vent gasses between the barrel, slide and frame to keep the action closed until pressures drop.

Please ignore the Browning GP Competition, the Kimber and the Glock...

Can one still say "retarded"

 

[Absalom]

Can one still say "retarded"

Applied to things it probably scrapes by

The automated cockpit annunciator in the Airbus series counts down the altitude and then tells the pilots to retard (to pull back) the throttles just before touchdown.

I was showing this video of a A380 landing at SFO to my high school aviation class and actually had a girl ask "Why is it calling the pilot a retard?"

 

[Farmer17]

Benelli semi auto shotguns use a very simple inertia lock blow back action and they are one of the most reliable shotguns ever made with very few moving parts that hardly ever break. They can also go longer than most guns without cleaning and still be reliable. I wonder why more guns are not using the inertia locking blow back?

 

[bc1023]

Benelli semi auto shotguns use a very simple inertia lock blow back action and they are one of the most reliable shotguns ever made with very few moving parts that hardly ever break. They can also go longer than most guns without cleaning and still be reliable. I wonder why more guns are not using the inertia locking blow back?

Some of their pistols did also.

To answer your question, its an expensive and complicated design.