Minor rant about cylinder terms

[Wiregrassguy]

I was contemplating making a humorous comment like "those 5 or 6 hole thingys in the drum" but quickly realized that it would rightly scandalize members with gravitas who are deadly serious about terminology. So, my sophomoric contribution is why not use standard gun terminology that has been around for centuries? Breech is the term that describes that rear part of a gun where cartridges are loaded. I know it is typically used on rifles but it doesn't have to be exclusive to rifles as the definition is broad enough to encompass handguns as well.



Ok, that's my contribution. Let the beating begin...

 

[jeffrefrig]

I'm kinda leaning toward FACE as the surface, not something with eyes, nose, & mouth so if I were to describe it, I would have to say front or rear face. But, before I look at the face, first I look at the purse. (Sorry, had to do it!)

 

[Muss Muggins]

Next thing ya' know we'll be back to clips and magazines . . .

 

[Hair Trigger]

If someone points a gun at you, are you looking at the back of the gun or the face of the gun?

I ain't lookin' at either one, I'm lookin' for cover, and tryin' to dig mine out of the holster.

One of my "things" is people who refer to "charge holes" as "chambers . . . " But as long as I know what you're talking about, I don't care. It ain't gonna alter the earth's rotation . . .

When I hear "charge holes", I think more of a cap and ball gun, where you press the load in from the front. A "chamber", to me at least, is where you insert a complete cartridge from the rear. A "cylinder" is nothing more than a rotary magazine with a number of individual chambers. I call the cylinder "face" the end towards the front of the gun, and the "breech" as the back where you load it from.

 

[Spajohn]

It seems like at like once a week someone will post about the serial number stamped on the cylinder. Many times, one of the forum members will say to check the "face" of the cylinder. Now I've always thought that looking at the face of an object, you are looking at the front of it.

When you load a swing out cylinder revolver, you load the cartridges into the "rear" of the cylinder and when you fire said revolver, the bullets exit the "front" of the cylinder, going into "rear" of the barrel.

Rant over.

I've been following this post for a while, and I've concluded that the main problem in determining what is the 'face', the 'front', or the 'rear' of the barrel depends upon what type of gun you're talking about.

 

[Jim Watson]

I know that S&W revolvers have Charge Holes. Do other brands?

Smiths have yokes, Colts have cranes, the internet has "swing arms."

I just say "the rear of the cylinder has a serial number."

 

[Absalom]

Language is primarily functional. It also develops. Terms stick around if they serve the function. Raging against that has frequently been the hobby of perfectionists, but there is not much relevance to it.

New people I‘ve directed to the face of the cylinder for a serial have found it if it was present. So it‘s obviously functional.

Charge hole isn‘t used by anybody outside some traditionalists. To me it sounds archaic and invokes shoving powder charges down cannon barrels; I won’t use it. Chamber is the universally used term for the place where the cartridge is emplaced for firing, whether directly a part of the barrel or one of five or six in a cylinder.

Lastly, some terms are simply tribal. Crane vs. yoke in Colt vs. S&W terminology is the best example.

 

[Jack Flash]

... but if you want to argue with the factory armorer's manual, be my guest . . .

Isn't that what we do here?

One that always seemed strange to me:
When talking about brass, we say "head" "shoulder" "mouth"
But the shoulder is between the head and the mouth!
Wouldn't it be more anatomically correct to replace "mouth" with "discharge orifice"?
On second thought, let me rephrase that ...

 

[Lou_the_welder]

Hey! My revolvers use clips! [emoji3]

 

[Hondo44]

One of my "things" is people who refer to "charge holes" as "chambers . . . " But as long as I know what you're talking about, I don't care. It ain't gonna alter the earth's rotation . . .

True. At the same time, none of us will learn anymore than what we know unless these "nuances" are brought to our attention. Personally I appreciate being corrected if I'm using the wrong word or pronouncing a word wrong, etc.; that's what friends are for. We help keep each other from continuing to appear ignorant on this or that.

For that matter, nothing on this forum is gonna alter the earth's rotation . . .

 

[delcrossv]

Charge hole isn‘t used by anybody outside some traditionalists. To me it sounds archaic and invokes shoving powder charges down cannon barrels; I won’t use it. Chamber is the universally used term for the place where the cartridge is emplaced for firing, whether directly a part of the barrel or one of five or six in a cylinder.

My understanding is that "chambers" that aren't necked down (i.e. take a heeled bullet, like 22s) are referred to as charge holes. So, as Hondo says, a nuance. And a functional one.

 

[GaryHK]

Face ~ Front
Butt ~ Back

We don't call the muzzle the "butt" of the gun, so why would the face be in the back facing the shooter?

Just an additional $0.02

 

[Absalom]

Face ~ Front
Butt ~ Back

We don't call the muzzle the "butt" of the gun, so why would the face be in the back facing the shooter?

On the other hand, you put the food in your face and poop it out the rear, so why would the place where you insert the cartridges not be the face?

 

[Hondo44]

So why are charge holes not chambers?

Charge holes are bored straight of one diameter (think cap & ball and cartridges that use heeled bullets), while chambers are the next evolutionary step. They're for cartridges with more modern bullets that have a smaller diameter than their cases, and therefore use a chamber with a chamber throat of smaller diameter than the cartridge case.

The only remaining charge holes in modern gun cyls that I can think of off hand are those for .22 cartridges excluding the .22 magnum and the .22 WCF.

 

[GaryHK]

I dunno...maybe because they get crapped out (ejected) in the same place...ew!

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

I’ve got a friend who calls bullets [the lead or jacketed projectile not the entire thing] ‘bullet heads’. Don’t know where he got that from. Guess he does that to differentiate between the components. You have brass and you have bullets and when assembled you have ammunition but in the common vernacular bullets also mean loaded ammo. “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.”

 

[Hondo44]

Next thing ya' know we'll be back to clips and magazines . . .

That's one that never gets enough exposure and there's actually 3 choices:
Magazine
clip
and en blanc clip

While it hasn’t been proven, there is a theory that the clip-magazine confusion actually started with the M1 Garand. U.S. soldiers first heavily used the rifle in World War II. The M1 Garand uses "en blanc" clips to load rounds into an internal magazine.

 

[Truckman]

Rear?...Butt?...Face?...We are still talking about women, right?......Ben

 

[handejector]

While we're facing off (see whut I did thare? ) on these monumental issues, I'll jump in on the Chamber/Charge Hole controversy because it is so important and could be life altering for some.



To wit:

Charge hole isn‘t used by anybody outside some traditionalists. To me it sounds archaic and invokes shoving powder charges down cannon barrels; I won’t use it. Chamber is the universally used term for the place where the cartridge is emplaced for firing, whether directly a part of the barrel or one of five or six in a cylinder.

Well said, except that I picture some reb pouring powder into the charge holes on the front face D) of the cylinder of his Leech & Rigdon before he rams the balls.


Charge holes or chambers?
We need to get this settled. It is important. Issues like a nuclear Iran or North Korea, protection/preservation of the 2A, surviving/beating covid, chinese world dominance, and a faltering economy pale in comparison to the disruption of our lives caused by this issue. If we are to survive as a society, we must reach agreement here.



Unfortunately, people like Clymer Tools are wrong according to some since they have been making and selling chamber reamers since 1958. If you need a charge hole reamer you must deal with someone besides Clymer-
Products - Clymer Tool

CLYMER PISTOL CHAMBERING REAMERS | Brownells



Even S&W cannot decide which term is correct. In this 1962 Instruction Sheet, they use both terms!

It's enough to give a body the dithers. I may swoon if I keep on ruminating on the topic!

 

[Hondo44]

I know that S&W revolvers have Charge Holes. Do other brands?

Smiths have yokes, Colts have cranes, the internet has "swing arms."

"

All brands could depending depending on if for cap and ball or which cartridge type. It's not at all a Smith vs. Colt terminology.

Smiths and Colts both used, both charge holes and chambers.