Model 19-3 stainless?

[glev]

To all those who are upset with me, I have spoken to Roy my self and my Dad talked to him two days ago. He said that a letter would not be helpful because it would not include a conclusive answer to the "mystery." Roy was very personable and looked up the gun by serial number. He was able to give us the manufactur date and details on some of the factory options, including target trigger and sights but he did not find info on the original finish. This seems strange to me. His opinion was that we should have the gun professionally tested to determine if it is some type of refinishing or possibly (but unlikely) a custom gun. He also said that if it is stainless, he would be interested in seeing the gun because it would be quite special. I have also consulted with additional collectors. Almost all offered one of two possibilities. One, that it is a mislabeled Model 66 that came from the factory with a few of the 100's of options on special edition runs.(that would explain the trigger and hammer comments.) The other is that it may be a prototype Model 19 in stainless, possibly testing a different grade of stainless. Not one person that has examined the gun thinks it has been refinished and the serial numbers and markings match throughout.
I meant no disrespect to those that took offense to my posts and I appreciate everyone that offered suggestions of any kind. I honestly researched every one of the posts that provided specific possibilities and actionable things to study or look at on the gun. I would like to offer my sincere thanks and appreciation to everyone that offered help. I see no reason to apologize to the 1 or 2 people that posted comments that served no purpose other than to tell me I have nothing worthwhile or the other few that chimed in. I never said the gun was a "one of a kind" or "find of a lifetime" and I simply wanted help trying to identify what I have. If I offended any but the small majority I apologize. To the 1 or 2 I referred to earlier, consider yourselves offended if that makes you feel better.

 

[Doc44]

glev...A factory letter should tell you the type of finish the 19-3 was shipped with, as when a letter request is made, Roy looks up the serial number to find out when and where the gun was shipped. He then contacts the Connecticut Valley Historical Museum in Springfield, MA where the factory invoices are kep and staff there find the invoice for that particular gun. It should indicate the type of finish the gun was shipped with, barrel length, and any special features that were an extra charge.

If you call Roy and talk with him, he does not have information about finish at his fingertips and must contact the museum to get it.

I would still letter the gun as you may be surprised what it tells you.

Bill

 

[ENGINE18]

Welcome to the friendly confines of the S&W Forum. Some here, including me, should probably quit taking themselves so seriously! Geez, it sounds like the weigh-in at a bass fishing tournament!

 

[CT Smith Fan]

Glev,If you follow Bill's instructions,get the gun correctly lettered and let us know the results, we will be interested in the information that he provides.If you want an example of the detail that Roy can go into check out Wimer's Collectable Firearms and read some of the letters that he has for the guns he sells.Just my 2 cents.

 

[glev]

Bill,

Once again, thank you for your input. You have been extremely helpful and your posts are always informative. I will follow your suggestion and get the letter. I will always follow direction from people like you that are obviously more knowledgeable than I. Whatever the outcome, suggestions and actions that may help determine what I have (regardless of whether it is just a sentimental attachment to a fine shooting revolver or a rare find) are the reason I came to this forum.
Thanks again

 

[glev]

One additional thought, both my Dad and I spoke to Roy and I can't figure out why he would he has dissuaded us from getting the letter. He has been courteous and seems to be a sincere person. It just seems odd. I guess that just adds to the fun of finding an answer. I'll keep the post updated with my findings.

 

[acl864]

One additional thought, both my Dad and I spoke to Roy and I can't figure out why he would he has dissuaded us from getting the letter. He has been courteous and seems to be a sincere person. It just seems odd. I guess that just adds to the fun of finding an answer. I'll keep the post updated with my findings.

I think this might be because he is doubtful the letter will give you the answer you are looking for. If he thought there were even a slight chance that the letter would indicate that the gun was a 19-3 shipped with a SS frame with factory authorization he would've encouraged you to letter the gun. JMHO.

 

[Sgt 127]

I honestly researched every one of the posts that provided specific possibilities and actionable things to study or look at on the gun.

Like this one?

Just saw this and as we used to have many gun s done by Ron Mahovsky through our shop ( and two of my own personal model 19s were done as such (Metalife SS) the 'batch ' numbers cited by bdgreen comes to mind, as many shops did just that. but the proof in th pudding would be quite easy to find out and how we do it is to scribe a mark ( line) on the grip frame flat , out of sight no less, and apply a drop of cold blue, the underlying metal will or will NOT turn 'blue'...if its stainless, (all the way through & through) no way will it "turn blue",but my bet is it will, see this all too often, and makes the crowd go nuts figuring out "why" it looks so much like stainless and its NOT....good luck, and as noted above, even if it was "mismarked" as to a model number ( also happens from time to time) only a slight premium .......all of this would have taken a couple of minutes to" solve your riddle...."

I meant no disrespect to those that took offense to my posts and I appreciate everyone that offered suggestions of any kind.

Really?

Dan,
Once again, it must be a sad person ( probably very qualified though) that would rather insinuate brilliance at someone's expense instead of offering to explain how to perform such a simple and fast test. I wonder if being of such lofty intellect makes a person agitated and condescending?

Did you actually READ his post before twisting off on him? Did you do the test he suggested?

 

[glev]

New Grips

Thank You borntoraisehogs!

 

[ARMinSC]

So, is it stainless?

 

[katanski]

19-3 finish

glev,
I also have a 19-3, Serial # K7923XX with a unique finish. It is not as bright a nickel and not as dull a SS. I have sent a LOA to S&W to find out what finish the gun was shipped from the factory with.

 

[AKsRule]

To all those who are upset with me, I have spoken to Roy my self and my Dad talked to him two days ago. He said that a letter would not be helpful because it would not include a conclusive answer to the "mystery." Roy was very personable and looked up the gun by serial number. He was able to give us the manufactur date and details on some of the factory options, including target trigger and sights but he did not find info on the original finish. This seems strange to me. His opinion was that we should have the gun professionally tested to determine if it is some type of refinishing or possibly (but unlikely) a custom gun. He also said that if it is stainless, he would be interested in seeing the gun because it would be quite special.

So -

Mr. Jinks told you the mfg. date.

Going by the FACTORY RECORDS he thinks it could
be a refinish.

If it is STAINLESS he said it would be "special"

Your low quality pictures are not definitive.

So without having the frame metal tested by a professional
no one will ever really know.

Bummer.

 

[18DAI]

katanski, please let us know what you find out from S&W.

I have a 4" 19-3, serial 2K 900XX that looks identical to yours. Not stainless, but not nickel either and looks flawless. I'm curious as to what you find out. Regards 18DAI

 

[snw19_357]

glev,
I also have a 19-3, Serial # K7923XX with a unique finish...

I'd like to hear what you find out too. That's a VERY low serial number for a 19-3.

 

[Sgt 127]

There is really no need to run one of these guns by the guys at NASA to determine what its made out of. As has been suggested, scratch through the finish and see if it turns blue when you put a drop of cold blue on the gun.

I would use a little diamond burr on a Dremal tool. Under the grips, cut a little tiny divot in the frame. Just a couple thousands deep. If you can see a divot, its deep enogh. Put a drop of cold blue in the divot. if it turns blue, the gun is carbon steel that has been plated, almost assuredly it has been hard chromed.

Armoly in Fort Worth did TONS of cop guns around here. Stainless guns were very hard to find. Take your 19 and get it plated, it looks and acts just like a stainless gun. The color is almost an exact match for stainless.

There is the off chance it was mismarked at the factory. Possibly. Slight premium if someone wants a mismarked gun. I wouldn't pay extra for it, others might.

I don't think a letter will help either. If it was marked as a 19 but, was in realty a 66, I suppose Smith would still think its shipped as a 19 and, thier records would indicate that.

 

[jtpur]

I had a model 36 once in blue finish. It got some water on it from rain, and showed a couple of rust spots. I sent it back and had the factory refinish it to stainless. I lived in South Florida and the humidity was horrible. The factory sent it back and every one thought it was the model 60...but it wasnt. The factory did not stamp the frame with a refinish mark...so it was done at the factory. I wonder if maybe yours might have had the same fate.,

 

[Sgt 127]

I had a model 36 once in blue finish. It got some water on it from rain, and showed a couple of rust spots. I sent it back and had the factory refinish it to stainless.

Just to clarify, a gun cannot be "refinished" to stainless. The designation "Stainless steel" indicates that the base metal that the part is made of is a steel that is highly resistant to rust. Your model 36 was made of carbon steel, that is prone to rust, and was plated with something to protect the steel from water getting to it and causing it to rust. Carbon steel cannot be changed into stainless steel.

(Well, I suppose it could be but, it would involve melting the entire gun down and changing its properties before being converted back into a gun again.)

Hard chrome is an exceptionally tough and durable finish that looks, for all the world, like stainless steel and, shares the same external properties. Actually, its MORE impervious to corrosion than stainless steel.

 

[Dregg]

Very interesting thread. Would like to find out the outcome.

 

[gearchecker]

Stainless markings - more info

Here are the markings mentioned earlier for the Stainless proof.
These are the markings on my Model 66-3 Ser# BPB099x

In the ejector housing below the barrel with the cylinder swung out.

On the rear of the cylinder (Mine has an "F" instead of a "V")

I hope these help you find the markings. These locations are where they will be on your revolver.

 

[dant]

There is really no need to run one of these guns by the guys at NASA to determine what its made out of. As has been suggested, scratch through the finish and see if it turns blue when you put a drop of cold blue on the gun.

I would use a little diamond burr on a Dremal tool. Under the grips, cut a little tiny divot in the frame. Just a couple thousands deep. If you can see a divot, its deep enogh. Put a drop of cold blue in the divot. if it turns blue, the gun is carbon steel that has been plated, almost assuredly it has been hard chromed.

Armoly in Fort Worth did TONS of cop guns around here. Stainless guns were very hard to find. Take your 19 and get it plated, it looks and acts just like a stainless gun. The color is almost an exact match for stainless.

There is the off chance it was mismarked at the factory. Possibly. Slight premium if someone wants a mismarked gun. I wouldn't pay extra for it, others might.

I don't think a letter will help either. If it was marked as a 19 but, was in realty a 66, I suppose Smith would still think its shipped as a 19 and, thier records would indicate that.

absolutely correct, and one could tell in a matter of minutes just what is metal of this gun, why the long drawn delay?? we are ONLY trying to help, wasn't in the firearms 'refinishing' business all those years for nothing.