my response to "no guns allowed" sign

[Dominus_Lex]

The Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners has the right idea, they publish a list of places folks with CCW's are not welcome, so they can spend their money elsewhere.

MCRGO - Do Not Patronize while Armed

 

[Protected One]

The Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners has the right idea, they publish a list of places folks with CCW's are not welcome, so they can spend their money elsewhere.

MCRGO - Do Not Patronize while Armed

Thanks for the info.!

 

[JSR III]

Do you guys ignore the Postal Service policy and take your gun in the post office? Or do you just leave it in the car for that trip?

I pay my bills online so I don't have to go to the post office, maybe when they go out of business they will get my message. Unfortunately, when I need a 2 x 4, I need it now and can't wait to order it online.

 

[Chillock]

Well, that answers it right there. Get the $200 fine, mentioned earlier, and your license will automatically be pulled because it's a weapons related misdemeanor.

Just another reason to simply not go in the establishment rather than try to assert your "constitutional" rights.

I agree, about going into an establishment OC or CC when it is clearly posted "no weapons". I have never intentionally gone into nor believe someone should go into an establishment that posts no weapons when they are OC or CC.

As I posted in the original post, we did not see the sign and left when we were informed of the rule.

 

[Chillock]

In the state of Washington, unless the building or property is publicly owned, it is considered private property and does not discern what the property is used for. Specifically mentioned a business owner is considered "owner" of property whether he is leasing or buying the property.

The "no weapons" signs are allowed in part because it is posted by the owner or representative of the owner (employee etc.) and the sign does not say "will not sell to those that carry guns". It only states that a person may not bring any weapon into or on the property depending upon where the sign is posted. IE: a sign posted on the door or inside is understood as mean no weapons inside the building. A sign posted at the entrance to the property is understood as meaning no weapons any where on the property.

I understand what everyone is saying; it may be different from state to state. Washington is trying to protect peoples rights (in this situation) the best possible. If someone does not want weapons on their property, it's not allowed. If someone wants to carry a weapon, WA is a CC and OC state so they are allowed to do so with very few restrictions compared to a lot of other states.

My point of the original post was: 1. we went into a business, didn't see the small sign at the register that was to the left of the entrance and we left when told of the sign. 2. The law does not allow LE to enter with weapons unless they are called to the business in an emergency or requested by the owner or a representative of the owner (employee).

 

[steelslaver]

Luckily where I live the only signs I know of is on a couple of government buildings. They must issue me a permit and the only legitimate reason I can think of to carry a concealed weapon around here is so I have an excuse to have a bigger bulge in my pants.

Actually it is so I can buy any gun I want in any store I want and walk out the door with it after making the check marks and signing my name.

 

[islamoradamark]

after reading many good posts here ive decided if i do see that sign i will just spend hundreds of dollars someplace else , because they probaly charge to much money anyways and dont need my bizz i will tell every one i know not to go there, and that goes for the other store owners that support this that dont have a sign. and the word on the street travels fast.

 

[vito]

Some of the comments here remind me of discussions about using a helmet while riding a motorcycle. I wear a helmet ALMOST all of the time; I understand the risks of not wearing one and decide for myself when I want to assume that risk. When I was a motorcycle instructor I used to tell students that I wasn't as clever as those riders who felt they "knew" when a helmet would be needed, and only wore one on those occasions. I admitted that I had no idea when a helmet might save my life, so I chose to wear one most of the time while riding (I actually lied a bit and told students I always wore a helmet).

Carrying a gun is a similar situation. As most of us have discovered, the overwhelming likelihood is that we will not a gun on any given day. Many will carry their entire adult lives and never once need it. But someone else might need it the very first time they think about carrying. None of us know, and each of us has to make the personal decision as to how much risk we are willing to take in return for the inconvenience/discomfort/etc. of carrying a firearm.

 

[Rastoff]

...I understand the risks of not wearing one and decide for myself when I want to assume that risk.

This is the key that I think may people miss. Do what you want, but understand the consequences of what you do.

People speed and think, "Oh, they won't bother me for 5 over" or "I can afford the ticket." What they fail to include in that thought process is the consequences of not being able to control the vehicle and hurting someone else.

The same is true with a gun. One guy said, "I can afford the $200 fine", but didn't think of the fact that he could lose his license to carry. Another said that carrying in a Post Office was a federal offense. Clearly he had thought about the consequences of carrying there and wasn't willing to take that risk.

Many in this thread have said, "I'll carry where I want regardless of the sign because it doesn't carry the weight of law" that's fine, but do they realize that there are other consequences?

 

[TexasArmed]

after reading many good posts here ive decided if i do see that sign i will just spend hundreds of dollars someplace else , because they probaly charge to much money anyways and dont need my bizz i will tell every one i know not to go there, and that goes for the other store owners that support this that dont have a sign. and the word on the street travels fast.

Reminds me I read where JC Penney was laying off workers. JC Penny and Sears both have legal signs where I live. I observe the signs by purchasing over the internet from foreign vendors. American retail business have no divine right to my business, and I have no concern whether they have to fold up their tents today or tomorrow. There are no chains on my feet forcing me to buy from them. No amount of advertising will sway me when I see that legal no gun sign in Texas. I consider their parking lots unsafe, and I am liberal with my advice to other people not to shop or support such businesses. If I can persuade one person not to spend money there to make it cost them I will do so.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I'm sorry. This isn't really a flame. But what sort of history did you know or what sort of intel did you have that made you feel the need for protection in a hardware store?

Really? "Good Lord, man! They have hatchets and axes in that place! All it takes is for ONE CUSTOMER TO SNAP, and you'll have a MASS AXING!"

And you made your Constitutional protest to the checkout clerk?

Should he have asked for the manager?

I don't spend my money places that have "no guns" signs. I was on my way to buy my wife a piece of jewelry one day when I saw the dreaded "no guns" sign on the door. I stood in front of the store for a few minutes with my gun on my hip (open carry), and the manager opened the door to ask if he could help me. I told him that I was interested in a "Journey" necklace around 2 karats total weight, but, since his company had put the sign on the door, I was going to buy it somewhere else. I told him to have a nice day and took my two grand sale elsewhere. "He went to Jared, but he bought the jewelry somewhere else!"

ECS

 

[KLYDE]

Store owner probably migrated North from Massachusetts!!!

 

[Devildogcpl]

Agree

Well done Sir!

 

[Jaysq]

I do not understand the logic of getting a CCW Permit and then breaking the law by carrying it onto posted private property because they won't know you are carrying anyway. Using that logic, why would you even brother to be partially legal by getting a CCW?

We get enough bad press when we are 100% legal, why give them more ammunition to use against us.

 

[vito]

I think it is easy to understand why a CCW license holder might carry even when a GFZ sign is posted: the entire purpose of carrying a firearm is to provide for self defense and defense of one's family. The need for a gun does not end merely because some anti-gun property owner decided to post a sign. I think that most gun owners want to obey the law, except when that law puts them into excessive danger.

Just as some good citizens knowingly broke the law by carrying even before concealed carry became legal, some will carry where it is technically prohibited. Leaving a firearm in an easy-to-break-into vehicle is not a great solution. Leaving a firearm at home because for one small part of a day you will not be able to avoid entering a business that is posted is not an acceptable compromise.

I would guess that most legal gun concealed carriers honor the property owner's decision where possible by not patronizing that business. But where it creates a dangerous or overly inconvenient situation you can just make sure that concealed means really concealed. I'll bet that if a GFZ business owner is being threatened with death by a criminal, and if a licensed gun carrier intervenes successfully, the business owner is not going to get too upset that his GFZ sign was ignored.

 

[TexasArmed]

I think it is easy to understand why a CCW license holder might carry even when a GFZ sign is posted: the entire purpose of carrying a firearm is to provide for self defense and defense of one's family. The need for a gun does not end merely because some anti-gun property owner decided to post a sign. I think that most gun owners want to obey the law, except when that law puts them into excessive danger.

Just as some good citizens knowingly broke the law by carrying even before concealed carry became legal, some will carry where it is technically prohibited. Leaving a firearm in an easy-to-break-into vehicle is not a great solution. Leaving a firearm at home because for one small part of a day you will not be able to avoid entering a business that is posted is not an acceptable compromise.

I would guess that most legal gun concealed carriers honor the property owner's decision where possible by not patronizing that business. But where it creates a dangerous or overly inconvenient situation you can just make sure that concealed means really concealed. I'll bet that if a GFZ business owner is being threatened with death by a criminal, and if a licensed gun carrier intervenes successfully, the business owner is not going to get too upset that his GFZ sign was ignored.

I agree that leaving your gun in a vehicle is not a good solution. I too avoid the post office, but if I do go there, I will not carry my revolver inside with me. On the occasions I do go into the post office, I never go in armed. All federal property is off limits. I can however carry into a hospital or a bank in Texas, and I do, but not if there is a 30.06 sign and not if it is federal property.

As for someone breaking into a vehicle at a post office, I figure that is the government's negligence in making it a gun free zone, as long as I lock my vehicle and the government leaves me no option.

Now if they made all handguns somehow illegal then I would decide maybe to ignore the law, since I consider such a law to be unconstitutional, certainly not enforceable by any executive order, regardless of who issues it.

I figure that business owners are not stupid in Texas. If they put up a gun buster sign they know the sign is not enforceable and if they wanted to keep out a concealed license holder they would put up the legally required signs. Those have to be in English and Spanish on every entrance. I see pawn and gun shops that have signs that your firearm must be unloaded before entering. When I told the owner of one of them that I never had bought anything there because of his sign, he said that it did not apply to permit holders. I even saw a sign once that said "pursuant to 30.06" and so on. But the letters were not 1 and 1/2 inches high and it was not in both English and Spanish, so if I had needed to go inside and pay for gas I would not have disarmed. But I also would not have stopped for gas there in the future.

 

[Protected One]

I do not understand the logic of getting a CCW Permit and then breaking the law by carrying it onto posted private property because they won't know you are carrying anyway. Using that logic, why would you even brother to be partially legal by getting a CCW?

We get enough bad press when we are 100% legal, why give them more ammunition to use against us.

You seem to miss the fact that in many states, just posting a sign does NOT make it illegal to carry in that establishment!

To some extent, those of us who choose to carry make things more difficult by trying to persuade those businesses to embrace our thinking - they won't.
Allow them their illusion of safety, and carry concealed (where legal), without any "objections to mg't". Or, if you choose...don't patronize those establishments that post such signs...again, without "objections to mg't".
After all, we carry to protect ourselves - not to try and pursuade others to do the same. At least...that's why I carry.

 

[Salty RI]

He did not laugh....but seemed baffled.

The young people today have no sence of humor, one time several years back my youngest son wanted a pair of sun glasses, they were called frog skins, we went into a store that has all kinds of sun glasses, I went to the counter and was looking around and a young guy asked if I needed any help, I said yes, I'm looking for some sun glasses for my son, I think they are call Fore Skins, my wife kicked me in the shins, he said he had never heard of them, but we do have some frog skins, I said OK I will take a pair of them, the dumb kid didn't even smile.

 

[SgtLumpy]

Some seem to delight in chastising states or other governments who do not "do the right thing" by passing lenient CCW laws - Then delight in pubicly proclaiming how they'll violate the law anyway.

Some (most here?) are adamant about how governments or other individuals "Don't dare infringe upon my rights". Yet, again, are adamant about how they'll disregard the rights of those (business owners) who disagree with our point of view.

Stop public posturing. Carry where you need to - discreetly. If you plan on violating a law or someone else's rights, don't brag about it. It doesn't help your cause. If you don't want people to control you or your guns, don't brag about how you'll just go ahead and do it anyway.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[jaykwish]

The theater my girlfriend and I visit every once in a while has a no firearms sign so before we went to see a movie one day we called and asked if my girlfriend could have her weapon in the theater( she is a police officer). Guess what they said? They said no! Are you freaking kidding me?! We still went and my furious self proceeded to explain to the manager how stupid those signs are and his response was " well didn't you see the theater shootings on tv? I then told him that guy would not have listened to your stupid sign even if it was ten feet tall. I said you won't even let an Leo in your theater and you have lost my business permanently. They wouldn't let a police officer into the theater with a pistol. Some of these people need to be high fived in the face with a chair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk