NYPD Off-Duty Question

[Landric]

My department does place some limits on the chamberings we are allowed to carry off-duty (nothing smaller than .380 ACP, nothing bigger than .45 Colt) and the types of ammunition allowed, but we are not nearly as limited as NYPD. My on-duty BUG is a 37-2 Airweight and my primary off-duty is a Ruger SP101. One could say that I like revolvers. I'm glad I am not prohibited from carrying them.

So, what are NYPDs current duty and off-duty weapons? I know the duty guns were the Glock 19, S&W 5946, and SIG 226 DAO, but I understand that has changed somewhat, I never knew what exactly was authorized for off-duty/backup.

 

[Knightrider03m]

Off topic but does NYPD use 9mm for their duty guns?

 

[MTS Cop]

The current authorized duty guns are: Smith & Wesson 5946, SIG Sauer P226 DAO, and Glock 19. The M&P 9 is going to replace the 5946 at some point in the near future.

The current authorized off duty guns are: Smith & Wesson 3914DAO and 3953, SIG Sauer P239 DAO and Glock 26. Again, the M&P 9c is in the works to replace the 3914 and 3953.

I'm not even going to get into what's grandfathered. There's a variety of Smith & Wesson and Ruger revolvers, Kahr K9s and Beretta 8000s.

Basically when a new weapon is introduced you aren't forced to adopt it because you do it at your own expense. If you were issued it and keep qualifying with it, you can keep carrying it.

 

[S. Kelly]

MTS Cop, since the M&P 9 full size is a 17 shot weapon, will they modify/alter it to hold 15 like the other designs?

 

[Lex_Ordo]

Marcus88.
The Current duty round 9mm is a GDHP 124 gr 9mm +P.

 

[Knightrider03m]

The current authorized duty guns are: Smith & Wesson 5946, SIG Sauer P226 DAO, and Glock 19. The M&P 9 is going to replace the 5946 at some point in the near future.

The current authorized off duty guns are: Smith & Wesson 3914DAO and 3953, SIG Sauer P239 DAO and Glock 26. Again, the M&P 9c is in the works to replace the 3914 and 3953.

I'm not even going to get into what's grandfathered. There's a variety of Smith & Wesson and Ruger revolvers, Kahr K9s and Beretta 8000s.

Basically when a new weapon is introduced you aren't forced to adopt it because you do it at your own expense. If you were issued it and keep qualifying with it, you can keep carrying it.

Marcus88.
The Current duty round 9mm is a GDHP 124 gr 9mm +P.

Thank you both.

I think that they have a narrow off-duty pick is because if officers start to carry what they want then the PD would have to buy ammo from .38s all the way to 10mm. It may be more cost effective due to the large amount off police officers that you have. But I could be wrong about this idea.

 

[MTS Cop]

MTS Cop, since the M&P 9 full size is a 17 shot weapon, will they modify/alter it to hold 15 like the other designs?

That's a good question that I don't know the answer to. I can absolutely seeing them do that. Since the media portrays us as a bunch of trigger happy racists, I'd imagine them getting wind of us having higher capacity magazines would cause a sh*t storm.

Plus it would be a pain in the ass on the firing line. The off duty quals are always a disater because you have guys with 5 shot revolvers, 9 shot S&Ws and 10 shot Glocks all trying to keep up to one pace. The service quals go much smoother because everyone has 15 rounds.

I'm curious to see how this turns out.

 

[ultra45]

Never gonna happen. Even IF he was allowed to carry a revolver, the 642 was never authorized. Getting a member of the service authorized to carry a non-dept issued gun is very hard (undercover guys will be allowed to do it since they are undercover. Other than the Glock, the other 2 service weapons are easily identified as NYPD guns. Not too many people chhose to carry double action only S& 5946's or SIG 226's. Even then, there is a whole procedure to follow and nobody is going to do that just because a rookie really likes his 642). I recall wanting to carry the 642 when we authorized the all steel 640. Was told emphatically "Hell no, kid"

You just spilt the beans.....

 

[perpster]

Thank you both.

I think that they have a narrow off-duty pick is because if officers start to carry what they want then the PD would have to buy ammo from .38s all the way to 10mm. It may be more cost effective due to the large amount off police officers that you have. But I could be wrong about this idea.

In litigious NY, it's more of a training and liability issue, not to mention anti-gun public and political sentiment. It wasn't until the late 1980's, during the peak of the crack violence that speedloaders were authorized (when semi-autos weren't yet authorized either), and that was only because a cop got shot in the head DOA by a semi-auto armed thug while the cop was trying to reload from dump pouches.

 

[Reevolvers]

In litigious NY, it's more of a training and liability issue, not to mention anti-gun public and political sentiment. It wasn't until the late 1980's, during the peak of the crack violence that speedloaders were authorized (when semi-autos weren't yet authorized either), and that was only because a cop got shot in the head DOA by a semi-auto armed thug while the cop was trying to reload from dump pouches.

Damn Shame that it takes things like that for departments to start allowing their men, and women in uniform to arm themselves with the proper equipment. I have never been in Law Enforcement but it seems to me that due to legal liability they sometimes find themselves behind the curve with respect to matching the bad guy's! West Hollywood ring any bells??????? L.E.O.'s should be allowed to determine what they need to do their jobs effectively, and efficiently, not some idiot in the legal department! I am all for standards but it seems sometimes they can take it to far!

 

[sheriffoconee]

First, I appreciate you NYPD guys keeping this thread alive. Interesting stuff. I agree, it is always a training and liability issue. Training, ammo, armorers, etc are expensive. Insurance companies review agency practices, such as weapons and training (among many other things) and set rates, and make decisions on whether or not your agency is in compliance with accepted police practices. When an individual is deciding on firearms for their own protection, it is a relatively simple process...when I do it for 95 people, it is a PITA...when NYPD does it for 30,000, well, it is just a monumental task. I can't make 95 people happy, no way NYPD is gonna make 30,000 happy....
We issue handguns, rifles and shotguns. We have less lethal options. We have a policy that authorizes improved weapons if necessary. We ditched the stupid "use of force charts and crap" years ago, and simplified our Use of Force policy without that soft hands, hard hands stuff. As training needs rise, and budgets shrink, keeping everyone qualified and well equipped is more and more of a task.
One advantage NYPD has over an outfit like mine is that NYPD can put a LOT of people on a problem in a short period of time. Where we work, backup might be working a crash on the other side of the county, and you might be alone for a LONG time before help arrives.

 

[sipowicz]

Judging from the authorized off duty guns, it wouldn't suprise me if they nixed the j-frames since they are the most easy to carry off duty and NY doesn't want off duty folk carrying.

 

[perpster]

Judging from the authorized off duty guns, it wouldn't suprise me if they nixed the j-frames since they are the most easy to carry off duty and NY doesn't want off duty folk carrying.

Except for extremely rare cases, the j-frame will be aged out by officer retirements. There just won't be anyone authorized to carry them anymore after a certain number of years (too tired to do the math at the moment). But your sentiment is correct.

 

[perpster]

First, I appreciate you NYPD guys keeping this thread alive. Interesting stuff. I agree, it is always a training and liability issue. Training, ammo, armorers, etc are expensive. Insurance companies review agency practices, such as weapons and training (among many other things) and set rates, and make decisions on whether or not your agency is in compliance with accepted police practices. When an individual is deciding on firearms for their own protection, it is a relatively simple process...when I do it for 95 people, it is a PITA...when NYPD does it for 30,000, well, it is just a monumental task. I can't make 95 people happy, no way NYPD is gonna make 30,000 happy....
We issue handguns, rifles and shotguns. We have less lethal options. We have a policy that authorizes improved weapons if necessary. We ditched the stupid "use of force charts and crap" years ago, and simplified our Use of Force policy without that soft hands, hard hands stuff. As training needs rise, and budgets shrink, keeping everyone qualified and well equipped is more and more of a task.
One advantage NYPD has over an outfit like mine is that NYPD can put a LOT of people on a problem in a short period of time. Where we work, backup might be working a crash on the other side of the county, and you might be alone for a LONG time before help arrives.

You are correct: one of the key strengths of the NYPD is the ability to swarm officers onto a problem or into a problem area. That's one of the reasons why large scale events don't get out of control in NYC (for the most part). BTW, NYC is a self-insurer.

 

[Lex_Ordo]

Well for me, I'm out in Cupcake now; If I qualify on it I can carry it, but I tend to stay with my City training. Agency Servcie Sig P229 .40, and my 5 shot 640 .38s, but remember when there were only 10 rounds authorized to be carried in the 15 rnd mag?

It took an off-duty female cop carrying her 5 shot revolver, to engage a robbery taking place at her hair salon in Brooklyn, for the powers that be to revisit the full capacity magazine issue.

Up to that point no one (I imagine that my statement is for patrol only) was authorized to carry more than 10 rounds in the 15 rnd 9mm magazine.
Everything in the City is a knee-jerk re-action.
Unfortunately, a lot of that thinking extends out East as well, but we do have M4 Carbines in the RMPs.

 

[ultra45]

Well for me, I'm out in Cupcake now; If I qualify on it I can carry it, but I tend to stay with my City training. Agency Servcie Sig P229 .40, and my 5 shot 640 .38s, but remember when there were only 10 rounds authorized to be carried in the 15 rnd mag?

It took an off-duty female cop carrying her 5 shot revolver, to engage a robbery taking place at her hair salon in Brooklyn, for the powers that be to revisit the full capacity magazine issue.

Up to that point no one (I imagine that my statement is for patrol only) was authorized to carry more than 10 rounds in the 15 rnd 9mm magazine.
Everything in the City is a knee-jerk re-action.
Unfortunately, a lot of that thinking extends out East as well, but we do have M4 Carbines in the RMPs.

Just setting the record straight...

The "JOB" NEVER issued 10 round mags. It was a proposal that was shot down very quickly. NYS has a 10 round cap on mags, but not for LEOs and the NYPD NEVER went to 10 round mags.

 

[perpster]

Well for me, I'm out in Cupcake now; If I qualify on it I can carry it, but I tend to stay with my City training. Agency Servcie Sig P229 .40, and my 5 shot 640 .38s, but remember when there were only 10 rounds authorized to be carried in the 15 rnd mag?

It took an off-duty female cop carrying her 5 shot revolver, to engage a robbery taking place at her hair salon in Brooklyn, for the powers that be to revisit the full capacity magazine issue.

Up to that point no one (I imagine that my statement is for patrol only) was authorized to carry more than 10 rounds in the 15 rnd 9mm magazine.
Everything in the City is a knee-jerk re-action.
Unfortunately, a lot of that thinking extends out East as well, but we do have M4 Carbines in the RMPs.

I don't remember 10 rounds max in the mags ever being implemented. Maybe that incident led to the authorization of the Glock 26? The G26 happens to have a 10 round mag. Is that what you're thinking of?

 

[CTSP-0960]

For the guys still authorized to carry revolvers, how is the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P Short Barrel .38's playing out in actual street shootings? I heard the round was developed at the request of the NYPD. I carry them off-duty in my 642-1.

 

[Gun-runner]

Do we even have rights anymore?

Sure we do silly! Unfortunatley in our state it's the opposite of left.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Just setting the record straight...

The "JOB" NEVER issued 10 round mags. It was a proposal that was shot down very quickly. NYS has a 10 round cap on mags, but not for LEOs and the NYPD NEVER went to 10 round mags.

How long have you been on the job? According to several trustworthy sources, the original Glock magazines were internally blocked to hold 10 rounds.

I have handled one of the magazines, shown to me by a Glock salesman. The magazine spring was molded into a solid piece of white polymer which fit inside the tube and which did not allow more than 10 rounds to be loaded, even though it was a "high cap" tube.

A new commissioner and a shooting incident in which someone ran dry caused a swift policy change. Are you quite certain that the 10 round limit was never put in place? Many articles reported on this, and I am repeating what was written at the time.