NYPD Off-Duty Question

[CTSP-0960]

Still on Prince Street in Flushing , NY. I visited recently.

Ultra45,

Are they leo friendly for visits? I have collected a lot of their products over the years. Wouldn't mine seeing the factory, esp. Since they are one of the last "mom & pop" operations out there!

When I think of jay-pee I always think of the nypd revolver holster and the belt pen and pencil holder. What was the story with that, did nypd shirts not have a pen/pencil slot on the shirt pockets that made a belt holder necessary? Never saw it outside the nypd.

I have a nypd revolver holster that has a pen/pencil holder on the side of the holster. Was told they were banned after a mute tried to reach for a pen on the cops holster so he could write him a note and the cop shot him cause he thought he was reaching for his gun. Don't know how true it was.

 

[MTS Cop]

MTS,

Are you "newer" guys authorized to carry the day billy if you wanted?

No, we never trained with it. The only impact weapons I am trained on are the ASP and plastic straight baton. I never carry the straight baton, although it is better for pushing crowds around. The ASP is more effective in any other situation though, and much easier to carry.

 

[CTSP-0960]

No, we never trained with it. The only impact weapons I am trained on are the ASP and plastic straight baton. I never carry the straight baton, although it is better for pushing crowds around. The ASP is more effective in any other situation though, and much easier to carry.

I figured straight baton training would cover the rubber billet since it is just a short straight stick.

The only thing the straight plastic baton would have over the asp is if you could find an old timer 2 show you how to twirl it!

 

[sheriffoconee]

In 78 I took three days off for using a flashlight as an "unapproved impact weapon"....which was fine, the bosses rule at that time was that use of a flashlight as an impact weapon was against the rules....

When I took office in 93, I changed the rules. Now we authorize the use of "improvised impact weapons" based on need and circumstance....
We train ASP, straight baton, TASER, OC, but allow the use of improvised weapons...

 

[perpster]

In 78 I took three days off for using a flashlight as an "unapproved impact weapon"....which was fine, the bosses rule at that time was that use of a flashlight as an impact weapon was against the rules....

When I took office in 93, I changed the rules. Now we authorize the use of "improvised impact weapons" based on need and circumstance....
We train ASP, straight baton, TASER, OC, but allow the use of improvised weapons...

Bravo and Kudos on the intelligent rule change.

Your post reminds me that NYPD knee-jerk reacted to the use of a Mag Light as an impact weapon by prohibiting the use of the larger Mag Lights. IIRC the 4 D cell batteries were prohibited. 3 D (or C?) was the maximum lenght authorized, and they were spefically NOT to be used for impact per Dept. guidelines. Of course, under the Penal Law if used properly there's nothing illegal about it. If force is justified, force is justified.

 

[sheriffoconee]

exactly, the tool doesn't matter....and how many time have you been standing there with a clipboard in your hand, or a ticketbook, when someone takes a swing at you....

 

[Lex_Ordo]

I figured straight baton training would cover the rubber billet since it is just a short straight stick.

The only thing the straight plastic baton would have over the asp is if you could find an old timer 2 show you how to twirl it!

Unfortunately no. We had a one day course in the gym on the use of the Day Billet.
The City is great at authorizing one type of weapon for one class and a different one for another.
The class before mine was authorized in the Straight & the Side Handle. My class was authorized the Side Handle, and the Day Billet. Go figure.
One more thing. The City didn't want to pay Monadnock for their training manual, so the City made their own manual and called the PR-24 a side Handle Baton for legal reasons as to not get sued.

 

[ultra45]

Ultra45,

Are they leo friendly for visits? I have collected a lot of their products over the years. Wouldn't mine seeing the factory, esp. Since they are one of the last "mom & pop" operations out there!

When I think of jay-pee I always think of the nypd revolver holster and the belt pen and pencil holder. What was the story with that, did nypd shirts not have a pen/pencil slot on the shirt pockets that made a belt holder necessary? Never saw it outside the nypd.

I have a nypd revolver holster that has a pen/pencil holder on the side of the holster. Was told they were banned after a mute tried to reach for a pen on the cops holster so he could write him a note and the cop shot him cause he thought he was reaching for his gun. Don't know how true it was.

I know both John & his dad (owners) for over 25 years, along with John's cousin John who branched off with Cobra. I will ask next time I visit.

All the authorized shirts in the NYPD, except for approved (extra cost) HWY Patrol shirts had NO chest pockets. Just a stitched outline with button sewn on. No place to put pens, cigarettes etc.

The main reason for not authorizing the pen holders on the holster, were to prevent accidential discharges. If its gonna happen, it will or has in the NYPD. It was proven that holstering while distracted could cause the top of the pen to depress the trigger and discharge a round. No Pen Holders For YOU!

 

[CTSP-0960]

Unfortunately no. We had a one day course in the gym on the use of the Day Billet.
The City is great at authorizing one type of weapon for one class and a different one for another.
The class before mine was authorized in the Straight & the Side Handle. My class was authorized the Side Handle, and the Day Billet. Go figure.
One more thing. The City didn't want to pay Monadnock for their training manual, so the City made their own manual and called the PR-24 a side Handle Baton for legal reasons as to not get sued.

Funny how the city differs so much from class to class with equipment! I can see having different training with the day billet when the side handle baton is also issued cause they are totally different techniques and designs. But straight baton and day billet sound like they should be interchangeable to me!

 

[CTSP-0960]

I know both John & his dad (owners) for over 25 years, along with John's cousin John who branched off with Cobra. I will ask next time I visit.

All the authorized shirts in the NYPD, except for approved (extra cost) HWY Patrol shirts had NO chest pockets. Just a stitched outline with button sewn on. No place to put pens, cigarettes etc.

The main reason for not authorizing the pen holders on the holster, were to prevent accidential discharges. If its gonna happen, it will or has in the NYPD. It was proven that holstering while distracted could cause the top of the pen to depress the trigger and discharge a round. No Pen Holders For YOU!

Ultra45,

Thanks, let me know next time you head back, would like to stop by! They still hanging in there, buisness is ok?

 

[Barsch]

I still have my rubber billy, don't think I ever carried it. I found it the other day in my garage and it does not have the NYC seal...maybe I should return it as I feel cheated. My original night stick cracked fairly quickly, and over the years (well, I went through several over the early years) was replaced with a more substantial cocobolo nightstick. The art of the wooden nightstick was learned "on the job", not at the academy. I remember walking an NSU footpost in alphabet city, spending the time learning to twirl it with the leather strap...staying away from windows just in case it slipped.

Narcotics Post 4 holding 2...85 forthwit, B and 7th...lots of fun!

 

[Lex_Ordo]

Narcotics Post 4 holding 2...85 forthwit, B and 7th...lots of fun!

9th Pct.

 

[ultra45]

Ultra45,

Thanks, let me know next time you head back, would like to stop by! They still hanging in there, buisness is ok?

Quite good actually.

 

[CTSP-0960]

Quite good actually.

That's good to hear!

I had the story wrong though. I was told one of the Parlante brothers had a disagreement and broke off to open Cobra and was not on speaking terms with the rest of the family from the Jay-Pee side. I didn't realize it was a cousin. I know the Cobra side John had some legal trouble years back and was MIA in Florida for awhile!

 

[ultra45]

That's good to hear!

I had the story wrong though. I was told one of the Parlante brothers had a disagreement and broke off to open Cobra and was not on speaking terms with the rest of the family from the Jay-Pee side. I didn't realize it was a cousin. I know the Cobra side John had some legal trouble years back and was MIA in Florida for awhile!

John's still in Fl, his son runs a portion of the business in NY.

 

[CTSP-0960]

John's still in Fl, his son runs a portion of the business in NY.

That would make sense.....I knew he had the FL portion that does mainly concealed carry holsters and the NYC portion which does mainly duty gear. He probably keeps the duty gear portion in NYC to keep in the market for NYPD duty gear. I don't think his duty gear is known much outside the NYC/NYPD area.

 

[CTSP-0960]

Just picked up a former NYPD S&W Model 64 with a 3" barrel. Is anyone aware of the history of 3" barrels with the NYPD?

I know that when the Policewoman rank was around the issued handgun was a .32 with a 3" barrel. I was told when the Policewoman rank was abolished in 73 and the Police Officer rank became gender nuetral, that the equipment section had a surplus of 3" .32's and sold them as off duty guns at very cheap prices.

I was not aware until I purchased the 3" Model 64 that 3" barrels were also had in .38's. Where these for off-duty or duty carry?

 

[perpster]

Just picked up a former NYPD S&W Model 64 with a 3" barrel. Is anyone aware of the history of 3" barrels with the NYPD?

. . .

I was not aware until I purchased the 3" Model 64 that 3" barrels were also had in .38's. Where these for off-duty or duty carry?

IIRC, they were authorized for both on and off duty carry and are somewhat rare.

 

[MTS Cop]

The 3 inch 64 NY-1 was the only 3 inch barrel gun ever authorized as a service weapon. From what I have seen and was told they are pretty rare.

 

[CTSP-0960]

The 3 inch 64 NY-1 was the only 3 inch barrel gun ever authorized as a service weapon. From what I have seen and was told they are pretty rare.

When you say service weapon you mean uniform duty carry, not off-duty correct?

 

[ultra45]

More Trivia

At one point the job ran out of square butt model 10's. S&W offered to divert a shipment of approx 100 4" model 10 round butts, which were accepted to hold us over. I got a call from one of the gunsmiths assigned to check them in. We didn't know where they were diverted from, but the guns were spectacular. Deep Hi Gloss Blue, all had extremely smooth triger pulls, compared to guns normally delivered and beautiful checkered stocks. Nautrally I had to have one, but wound up selling it several years later. I never carried it or shot it. Sold it NIB. They were nice and to my knowledge the only RB Smityhs the Job had.

 

[florida1098]

Narcotics Post 4 holding 2...85 forthwit, B and 7th...lots of fun!

Grew up on Grand St 7th Pct and went to grammar school on 8th St and B. That was when Tompkins Sq Park was like a scene out of a Mad Max movie, That was about 72-1980. Anyway, a quick note, was a Sgt in the 26 and 32 for 17 yrs total. Retired in 04 and work in Palm Beach fl now. First foot chase here I jumped out of RMP yelling into Radio 32 Sgt foot pursuit, 13 forthwith. No one had a clue here. Anyway, old habits die hard. The stupidest part of my story was that I was still chasing people. From now on GOA.

 

[CTSP-0960]

Speaking of trivia and Policewoman, I had a chance to visit the NYPD museum last month. They had a leather purse/handbag that was issued to Policewoman and had a built in holster to carry to the 3" .32's. It said it was designed by one of the commisioners and made by Jay-Pee. It was worn over the shoulder like purse while in uniform. If I'm not mistaken it also said it was issued with make-up in it.! Imagine that in this day and age!

 

[perpster]

When you say service weapon you mean uniform duty carry, not off-duty correct?

Actually, under NYPD regs, an officer can always carry their service gun (meaning the gun they carry on duty in uniform) as their off duty gun. But since the service gun is usually on the large and hard to conceal side, most officers opt to get an additional gun from the authorized list of off-duty guns.

 

[perpster]

First foot chase here I jumped out of RMP yelling into Radio 32 Sgt foot pursuit, 13 forthwith. No one had a clue here. Anyway, old habits die hard. The stupidest part of my story was that I was still chasing people. From now on GOA.

LOL. Don't you mean 90-Z?

 

[sheriffoconee]

no, he actually meant "stat" (status) 3

 

[florida1098]

There are so many codes and signals down here I can't remember what the heck i'm blabbering on the radio half the time. All I know, and remember from NY is 63 and 62p or on a personal. As a boss in NYC I guess I had a little more leeway, but I mostly spoke plain English, very few codes unless it was for help, or 85 Administrative, or when I got a 10-2 forthwith from the Duty Inspector Gunther, but that's a story for another day. Literally w/o exaggeration here in PB CTY FL there are 200 codes/signals that you are expected to know. If I don't have my cheat sheet or another MOS around I am lost about the details of the call til I get there. Like a signal 7, when I first got here, not a clue, but when I got there I said "Hey sir, how can I help you.?" He started screaming, What do you mean, I called and said My wife is dead. I know now what a signal 7 is. That one I won't forget.

 

[perpster]

There are so many f---ng codes and signals down here I can't remember what the heck i'm blabbering on the radio half the time. All I know, and remember from NY is 63 and 62p or on a personal. As a boss in NYC I guess I had a little more leeway, but I mostly spoke plain English, very few codes unless it was for help, or 85 Administrative, or when I got a 10-2 forthwith from the Duty Inspector Gunther, but that's a story for another day. Literally w/o exaggeration here in PB CTY FL there are 200 codes/signals that you are expected to know. If I don't have my cheat sheet or another MOS around I am lost about the details of the call til I get there. Like a signal 7, when I first got here, not a clue, but when I got there I said "Hey sir, how can I help you.?" He started screaming, What do you mean, I called and said My wife is dead. I know now what a signal 7 is. That one I won't forget.

Another SOG: Survivor of Gunther. Maybe we should start our own club/group.

After 9/11 and the advent of NIMS/NICS, I thought the whole country was supposed to switch to plain English on the radio. Doesn't seem to have happened, at least in FL or NY.

In FL, I guess signal 7 happens often enough that you won't forget it.

 

[kbm6893]

Another SOG: Survivor of Gunther. Maybe we should start our own club/group.

After 9/11 and the advent of NIMS/NICS, I thought the whole country was supposed to switch to plain English on the radio. Doesn't seem to have happened, at least in FL or NY.

In FL, I guess signal 7 happens often enough that you won't forget it.

Gunther was the biggest dik I ever met. He was about 6'9 and stood out due to his height, but even if he was 5'4, his attitude would have made up for it. I know he tried to get 3/4's due to "loss of hearing from working high profile parades and events". I hope he got nothing.

 

[CBennett]

Wow ... NY = FAIL.

Can't wait to get back home to the midwest....

you said it...born and raised in NYS(western NY though near Buffalo never been to the city in my life) I love it consider it home but am now in PA and all I can say is I will move back closer to my home when I retire to be close to family but I will never actually live in that messed up state again. Oh and for us(i know it was not the question but I will add my 2cents) luckily off duty we can carry what we want(under LEOSA) our agency does not stipulate what you can or cant carry off duty so its pretty much your choice for what you want you off duty gun to be.