So last week I'm at the department range doing my bi-annual requal. I was one of the lucky few they picked to do the advanced tactics course that day (it was awesome btw). Since we were a small group we got to BS with the instructors much more than we normally would have. While talking about how some people shoot poorly because they have a gun that doesn't fit them right we were told that the department will very soon be adopting the M&P9 as a service weapon. That's right, the NYPD is going M&P. S&W won't be making the 5946, or any 3rd Gens I guess, much longer. The M&P9c will also be an authorized off duty. The instructors we were speaking to really like the idea of the changeable backstrap, but otherwise didn't seem too enamored with the gun. I hope the NYPD doesn't ruin it like they did with the Glock and Sig so I can pick one up cheap from the Equipment Section as a fun gun, I have no intention of dumping my 5946. I'm sure Smith & Wesson is thrilled about scoring that contract.
NYPD to go M&P
- Thread starter MTS Cop
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safearm
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S&W hasn't made a press release on the change; usually they're pretty quick to make an announcement, particularly when it's something as big as equipping the largest police department in the world.
Cruiser RN
Member
I think the move would be good for people such as myself with small hands.When I started shooting in the 1980's the wonder Glock was the rage.My instructor was a old school LE Instructor,handed me a Model 10,and said when you learn to shoot a double action revolver well you will be able to shoot anything well.It took 17 years and me becoming a instructor to get around to semiautomatic shooting.I gravitated immeadiately to the 3rd Gen Smiths with the single stack mag, all metal construction,mag disconnect,and a breakdown proceedure that doesn't involve pulling the trigger.Now if NYPD would get away from the 13 lb trigger pull they may be onto something...........God Bless......Mike
KurtC
Member
Is it an actual contract, or just an addition to the "authorized" list?
Tim Nagel
US Veteran
I thought NYPD Officers chose their pistols from an approved list? Didn't the list include S&W, Glock, Sig Sauer? And I thought all new recruits had the option of any of those on the list. Just my 2 cents.
Sonny Crocket
US Veteran
And they still will, just the 5946 will be replaced by the M&P and the the 3914 and 3953 will be replaced by the M&P compact.
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Sonny has it right. Weapons will be selected the same way, except the 5946 will be replaced by the M&P. I guess the easiest way of explaining it is the M&P is simply replacing the 5946. Sorry if my previously wordy post was a bit confusing. It hasn't been announced yet probably because the switch hasn't officially happened yet. It probably won't until 2010.
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Since NYPD does not "issue" guns, but instead have an approved list from which officers can purchase from the equipment bureau, it seems that perhaps the M&P 9mm may have been approved for purchase. If so, perhaps it will replace the 5946 or be in addition to it.
I was under the impression that the approved list for duty pistols is the Glock 19, the S&W 5946 NY version or the SIG 226DAO NYPD version.
Sonny Crocket
US Veteran
That is correct. What MTS Cop heard, and I've heard the same around, is that S&W is going to stop production of all 3rd. gen. pistols no matter who has a contract with them. The M&P is their new bread 'n butter in the auto world and therefore NYPD has to go with it or something else because here soon there will be no more 5946s (3914DAO and 3953 for backup/offduty also).
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Interesting. If I were NYPD, I would spec the M&P9 with a trigger return spring that does NOT require the little felt pad insert AND I would require that the mags be finished in a corrosion resistant finish. Finally, I would make sure that any misfire issues have been fully resolved. That last issue (misfires) in an agency like NYPD could destroy the M&P in one swoop, so I hope for S&W's sake that they do whatever they need to in order to eliminate any misfire issues. The reports of misfires is just enough to keep that nagging worry about the weapon's reliability in the forefront. I believe a California agency recently pulled M&P9s because of misfire issues.
S&W is going to have to understand that S&B and other crappy ammo exists and people use it for practice. In addition, there is plenty of hard primer surplus European submachine gun 9mm that gets brought in and the M&P is going to have to be beefed up enough to fire the stuff, if S&W does not want to have a big problem on their hands.
Are you listening, S&W?
Smith Pistol
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Los Angeles Sheriff Department pulled them from service in April. I believe there were a couple issues that began to show-up involvoing a failure to extract. If I can find any links to the documents, I'll post them.
ON EDIT: Click here for the LASD notice
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Sonny Crocket
US Veteran
NYPD issues the Speer Gold Dot 124gr.+P JHP for their 9mms and they are extremely happy with it. If I'm not mistaken, they use duty loads for quals too.
SoCalDep
Member
The LASD problems seems to be related largely to the ammunition used. I have heard what I consider pretty reliable information that when the M&P pistols were replaced with the Beretta, the malfunctions continued. (The Berettas are painfully reliable when even minimally maintained, so this is telling...)
It sounds like a couple bad pistols combined with a bad lot of ammo resulted in the issue, though there is no official word yet. Last I heard the dept. is testing the Sig P250 and re-testing the M&P.
It sounds like a couple bad pistols combined with a bad lot of ammo resulted in the issue, though there is no official word yet. Last I heard the dept. is testing the Sig P250 and re-testing the M&P.
Smith Pistol
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Do you happen know what ammo they were using with both the M&P and the 92FS? This inquiring mind would like to know.
A buddy of mine on the Guilford County Sheriff's Department called me yesterday. They are going to transition to the M&P pistol, from the Glock 22. He was not happy.
Told me S&W is GIVING them the pistols and holsters in exchange for the Glock 22's. No wonder they are "increasing market share". If you can't win a T&E.....appeal to the bean counters. Regards 18DAI.
Told me S&W is GIVING them the pistols and holsters in exchange for the Glock 22's. No wonder they are "increasing market share". If you can't win a T&E.....appeal to the bean counters. Regards 18DAI.
RufusG
Member
SoCalDep
Member
The current practice ammo is Winchester Win-Clean. Before that was Federal Ballisticlean. Some guns (particularly the HK USP's) have been notoriously non-tolerant of this ammunition. Put duty ammo (Ranger-T's) in them and they work just fine, but using the clean ammo they REALLY commonly jammed on the last round. I can tell you this from first hand experience.
Gary1911A1
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I consider this bad news as I prefer the 3rd generation S&W to the M&P polymer striker fired attempt at a handgun. I feel that way about every polymer striker fired.
norfdet
Member
We had a local department here that did the same thing, they traded their aged 4586 back to S&W in an even exchange for 45ACP M&P's.
The JOB (NYPD) will switch to the M&P reluctantly. As stated elsewhere, they currently only make the 5946 for us and I think MI State Police...Oh and the Canadian Mounties. The range has been testing the M&P since before it was released (read years ago) to the public and has had some issues with it. S&W, unlike Sig years ago, bens over backwards for "The Job", constantly making the requested improvements. I guess they finally got it right after all the testing and the job is confident enough to add it to the authorized list in the very near future.
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