+P .38 special ammo compatibility
- Thread starter Edelkind
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Factory +P won't damage it.
Factory +P won't damage it.
Yendor357
Member
You want some real serious .38S ammo? Look at Buffalo Bore's web sight. I think he has a 158 going 1100. He writes a paragraph or 2 about his ammo. It makes for interesting reading, I think.
YeshuaIsa53
Member
I highly recommend practicing, and the S&W .38 Special 148 grain wadcutter is one of the most used target loads. The Model 14 loves them.
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Push come to shove, ANY .38 Special revolver ever made is fine with +P.
Were it to be any other way, and damage were to come to you or your property, you can count on a visit from the Plaintiff's Bar---soliciting you as a Plaintiff in their class action law suit. Once that's accomplished, we can count on TV ads urging all with injury or property damage to call 1-800-Bad-Ammo so as to sue the pants off of the bad old ammo company(ies), and make all of you rich.
That said, in the real world, the bad old ammo companies are well aware of all this, and have Risk Managers and staff on site to see to it no such thing can happen. That's because the Momma's of all these folks didn't raise no dumb kids.
You may find it enlightening to compare the performance of today's +P ammo with the performance of regular old everyday .38 Special ammo from back in the day----the day before they downgraded it. That said, we can do that right here and now:
We'll do muzzle velocity for the sake of simplicity---and because it's easy to look up. We'll look it up for the plain old 158 grain bullet load---mostly because that's about all they had back when.
SO---------------------
From 1925, we have that at 858 fps.
Today we have that at 755 fps.
For today's +P load we have 890 fps.
You can see right off why some folks are jittery about using +P loads----or maybe you can't. I can't.
Ralph Tremaine
Actually, now that I think about it, maybe it costs more to use +P---maybe that's what the + is all about. When it comes to money, some's good, more's better, and too much is just right!! What better reason to come out with something "new and improved" to sell?
A belated addition: +P ammo became available shortly after the ammo companies became aware of the rapidly increasing number of concealed carry credentials across the country. They then said to themselves, "Self, you know what?!! We ought to come out with some souped-up loads for these folks--it'll sell like hotcakes!!" And they did, and it did, and they all lived happily ever after! Well maybe all except for the folks who were paying more for the souped up loads that weren't souped up very much at all!! All this came to pass because of the success of the folks who made it big with better mouse traps. And speaking of better mouse traps, we had a mouse not all that long ago. I saw it first----it came across the counter of the back porch sink, jumped down to the floor, and ran under a piece of furniture---a so-called "dry sink". It scared the living bejesus out of a visiting aid, who let out a screech that scared the living bejesus out of me, and RAN into the kitchen!! The Boss Lady called our pest control company. They come once a month, and spray around the house to keep the critters from coming in. They showed up with some mouse traps the likes of which I'd never seen!! One of them was a "sticky trap"---a little flat tray with sticky stuff on it---and a place for bait. The poor mouse goes for the bait, gets stuck, and can't get off. Then it starts jumping around, "sticky trap" and all, and one of them made it out into the middle of the floor on the back porch before it got tired of jumping around. It fell to me to pick up the sticky tray, mouse and all. I carried it outside, and hoped some mouse eating critter would come along and end its misery ------and not get stuck in the process!
Were it to be any other way, and damage were to come to you or your property, you can count on a visit from the Plaintiff's Bar---soliciting you as a Plaintiff in their class action law suit. Once that's accomplished, we can count on TV ads urging all with injury or property damage to call 1-800-Bad-Ammo so as to sue the pants off of the bad old ammo company(ies), and make all of you rich.
That said, in the real world, the bad old ammo companies are well aware of all this, and have Risk Managers and staff on site to see to it no such thing can happen. That's because the Momma's of all these folks didn't raise no dumb kids.
You may find it enlightening to compare the performance of today's +P ammo with the performance of regular old everyday .38 Special ammo from back in the day----the day before they downgraded it. That said, we can do that right here and now:
We'll do muzzle velocity for the sake of simplicity---and because it's easy to look up. We'll look it up for the plain old 158 grain bullet load---mostly because that's about all they had back when.
SO---------------------
From 1925, we have that at 858 fps.
Today we have that at 755 fps.
For today's +P load we have 890 fps.
You can see right off why some folks are jittery about using +P loads----or maybe you can't. I can't.
Ralph Tremaine
Actually, now that I think about it, maybe it costs more to use +P---maybe that's what the + is all about. When it comes to money, some's good, more's better, and too much is just right!! What better reason to come out with something "new and improved" to sell?
A belated addition: +P ammo became available shortly after the ammo companies became aware of the rapidly increasing number of concealed carry credentials across the country. They then said to themselves, "Self, you know what?!! We ought to come out with some souped-up loads for these folks--it'll sell like hotcakes!!" And they did, and it did, and they all lived happily ever after! Well maybe all except for the folks who were paying more for the souped up loads that weren't souped up very much at all!! All this came to pass because of the success of the folks who made it big with better mouse traps. And speaking of better mouse traps, we had a mouse not all that long ago. I saw it first----it came across the counter of the back porch sink, jumped down to the floor, and ran under a piece of furniture---a so-called "dry sink". It scared the living bejesus out of a visiting aid, who let out a screech that scared the living bejesus out of me, and RAN into the kitchen!! The Boss Lady called our pest control company. They come once a month, and spray around the house to keep the critters from coming in. They showed up with some mouse traps the likes of which I'd never seen!! One of them was a "sticky trap"---a little flat tray with sticky stuff on it---and a place for bait. The poor mouse goes for the bait, gets stuck, and can't get off. Then it starts jumping around, "sticky trap" and all, and one of them made it out into the middle of the floor on the back porch before it got tired of jumping around. It fell to me to pick up the sticky tray, mouse and all. I carried it outside, and hoped some mouse eating critter would come along and end its misery ------and not get stuck in the process!
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gwpercle
Member
For home defense ... across the room distances ...
shoot the ammo you can shoot accurately and with a fast follow up .
At these times ... Only Hits Count and missing will get you killed .
My 38 special is loaded with 148 gr. HBWC Target ammo ...
I can shoot it accurately and fast !
I can also tell you that during a shoot out ...
the cost of ammo never enters your head !
Gary
shoot the ammo you can shoot accurately and with a fast follow up .
At these times ... Only Hits Count and missing will get you killed .
My 38 special is loaded with 148 gr. HBWC Target ammo ...
I can shoot it accurately and fast !
I can also tell you that during a shoot out ...
the cost of ammo never enters your head !
Gary
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cd228
Member
Welcome to the Forum,
Good question. Without examining the condition and knowing the history of your revolver, I can't say with 100% certainty.
However, given that It's a K frame and that people (myself included) have shot +Ps through K frames for years, you can probably shoot +Ps through it without issue.
You could have your gunsmith take a look at it, just to be sure.
Good question. Without examining the condition and knowing the history of your revolver, I can't say with 100% certainty.
However, given that It's a K frame and that people (myself included) have shot +Ps through K frames for years, you can probably shoot +Ps through it without issue.
You could have your gunsmith take a look at it, just to be sure.
Doug M.
Member
If one studies the needed ballistic characteristics of handgun ammo in self defense (all pistol rounds suck and are very low power compared to long gun rounds; pistols are what one carries when they have no specific reason to expect to need a defensive firearm), the best answer in a .38 tends to be old school WC/SWC, even at standard velocity.
The need for penetration is first. The square shape of the WC/SWC is your friend, as it will cut flesh the best. If you are concerned about you ability to shoot well due to a lack of physical capacity, the WC is likely your friend; it is still the round of choice for an LE BUG in .38. The main round I use in my M66 is a standard velocity SWC; the ability to shoot it well and fast is far more important than "power". Can I qualify with hot .357 rounds? Yes. Do I perform as well? No.
Are there .38 HP rounds that penetrate and expand well? Yes. Are they a lot more expensive and far less common? Yes. Is the incremental difference worth it? Probably not, especially if one considers their own abilities. If I wanted a higher power round, it would be a hotter loaded SWC. (Consider winter clothing ...) I have a K38, and while it would not be my first choice for lots of reasons, it would do fine - remember that LAPD did a lot of good work with K38s and sub-optimal ammo.
You also need to know the best places to target a dangerous human. In crude terms, draw two vertical lines from the shoulders down, with the horizontal lines about the bottom of the sternum and at the bottom of the throat. On the head (face), it is the triangle formed by the outer corner of the eyes and the bottom of the nose.
To me, the first steps in home defense involve making it unattractive to mess with you. The more you do that, the less likely someone is to want to enter and then need shooting. Investments in lights and fencing are worth it. I like big dogs. The woof of any of the mastiff types is a discouraging sound to most criminals. 2 dogs (1 of each sex reduces conflict potential) is REALLY discouraging. They are also good company.
As much as I cheer and call it heartwarming every time a good guy kills a bad guy, such incidents often also show a failure of mindset and tactics that discourage criminals.
The need for penetration is first. The square shape of the WC/SWC is your friend, as it will cut flesh the best. If you are concerned about you ability to shoot well due to a lack of physical capacity, the WC is likely your friend; it is still the round of choice for an LE BUG in .38. The main round I use in my M66 is a standard velocity SWC; the ability to shoot it well and fast is far more important than "power". Can I qualify with hot .357 rounds? Yes. Do I perform as well? No.
Are there .38 HP rounds that penetrate and expand well? Yes. Are they a lot more expensive and far less common? Yes. Is the incremental difference worth it? Probably not, especially if one considers their own abilities. If I wanted a higher power round, it would be a hotter loaded SWC. (Consider winter clothing ...) I have a K38, and while it would not be my first choice for lots of reasons, it would do fine - remember that LAPD did a lot of good work with K38s and sub-optimal ammo.
You also need to know the best places to target a dangerous human. In crude terms, draw two vertical lines from the shoulders down, with the horizontal lines about the bottom of the sternum and at the bottom of the throat. On the head (face), it is the triangle formed by the outer corner of the eyes and the bottom of the nose.
To me, the first steps in home defense involve making it unattractive to mess with you. The more you do that, the less likely someone is to want to enter and then need shooting. Investments in lights and fencing are worth it. I like big dogs. The woof of any of the mastiff types is a discouraging sound to most criminals. 2 dogs (1 of each sex reduces conflict potential) is REALLY discouraging. They are also good company.
As much as I cheer and call it heartwarming every time a good guy kills a bad guy, such incidents often also show a failure of mindset and tactics that discourage criminals.
You should be fine with +P ammunition in a K frame .38. A box of 20 self defense cartridges should last you a lifetime. Shoot six just to get a feel for the recoil level, buy two speed loaders for the dresser drawer, and you will have two cartridges left over.
A lot of people will tell you that shooting a steady diet of +P ammunition in a K frame will accelerate wear on the gun. It's probably true, but you would have to shoot a great deal of it. And there is no reason to do so. They sell that stuff in boxes of 20 rounds for a reason.
I keep a speed loader of brand X self-defense expanding plus P 38 special ammunition next to my .38 special K frame. I pray to God I never have to use it, but people have twice tried to break into my house while I was home.
A lot of people will tell you that shooting a steady diet of +P ammunition in a K frame will accelerate wear on the gun. It's probably true, but you would have to shoot a great deal of it. And there is no reason to do so. They sell that stuff in boxes of 20 rounds for a reason.
I keep a speed loader of brand X self-defense expanding plus P 38 special ammunition next to my .38 special K frame. I pray to God I never have to use it, but people have twice tried to break into my house while I was home.
The model 14...
...is essentially a target version of the model 10. That's one tough gun that's been made over 100 years. Very solid and reliable. It'll take a continous feed of +P for years. I've experimented with some pretty stout hand reloads in mine with not a bit of trouble.
A short story: I have an 1970 Sierra manual (read 'hunting loads'. I gives a full grain of Unique powder over what is seen as max in nearly all reloading data nowadays. I didn't go a full grain over, but the loads got pretty raucous and the model 10 didn't even breath hard.
Moral of the story. Don't worry about your model 14 with today's +P ammo.
...is essentially a target version of the model 10. That's one tough gun that's been made over 100 years. Very solid and reliable. It'll take a continous feed of +P for years. I've experimented with some pretty stout hand reloads in mine with not a bit of trouble.
A short story: I have an 1970 Sierra manual (read 'hunting loads'. I gives a full grain of Unique powder over what is seen as max in nearly all reloading data nowadays. I didn't go a full grain over, but the loads got pretty raucous and the model 10 didn't even breath hard.
Moral of the story. Don't worry about your model 14 with today's +P ammo.
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