Pepper spray vs bear
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Boudiepitbull
Member
When the adrenaline wears off he's probably going to be in one hell of a lot of hurt...
Glad he's gonna be OK. Good reason to carry a real weapon....of course there's certain ones (usual suspects) on here that will probably say he got what he deserved and complain that he harmed the poor bear by spraying pepper in it's eyes.
Don
Don
Watchdog
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The guy's lucky to be alive, especially after being attacked twice. If that bear had chomped down harder on his head, he'd never have survived. And unless he's really quick on the draw and a dead shot, I'm not sure a sidearm would have done any good.
carpriver
US Veteran
Sometimes you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time and you get bit by a bear.
I never sprayed a bear but I know it works on German Sheppards.
Watchdog
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Just like so many other times over the course of a person's life. Fate? Karma? Predestination? God's will? Who knows? And what difference does it make?
Whatever the reason, bad stuff happens to people, and all the "preparedness" in the world ain't gonna stop it from happening.
BearBio
Member
Statistically, bear spray still works better than firearms by about 30% (in about 1000 actual attacks on all 3 species in North America--I understand it also works on European and Asian bears but there's not a lot of data). I've used the weaker dog spray on two German Shorthairs and got some in my face by accident==and that's a lot weaker.
Bears cannot crush a skull as their jaws don't open wide enough==they just scrape all the scalp off. (Or bite your face off!) If they could get your head in, they might be able to, although wolves (and dogs) have stronger jaws, power wise.
Bears cannot crush a skull as their jaws don't open wide enough==they just scrape all the scalp off. (Or bite your face off!) If they could get your head in, they might be able to, although wolves (and dogs) have stronger jaws, power wise.
Ed Fowler
Member
I feel that man had a good plan, knew what to do and stuck to it and is alive today because of his knowledge and courage.
da gimp
Member
On the other current bear thread, on one of the web sites posted on it, advocated using bear spray to ward off bears, but then went on to say that in 56% of all maulings of humans by bears, bear spray was used. They did not list how often the usage of firearms failed in preventing loss of life & injury. So they admit that the spray failed more than one half of the time.
In the same thread, one guy who was attacked (the OP), chose to use his bear spray instead of his firearm & suffered serious injuries.
No one will know if he would have been able to drop the bear & stop the attack if he had wisely used his firearm instead of the spray... but this was another clear instance of the spray failing.
If he had relied on his handgun, he would have at least had a chance...like the game warden did who was forced to use his revolver to fight off & kill a bear they were relocating. The bear was killed by what appeared to be a S&W mod 66 .357 mag., while it was attacking the warden.
I'd rather take a chance on using a firearm than hoping that what's really nothing more than a large can of Mace will deter an animal bent on seriously harming me or those I am with.
In the same thread, one guy who was attacked (the OP), chose to use his bear spray instead of his firearm & suffered serious injuries.
No one will know if he would have been able to drop the bear & stop the attack if he had wisely used his firearm instead of the spray... but this was another clear instance of the spray failing.
If he had relied on his handgun, he would have at least had a chance...like the game warden did who was forced to use his revolver to fight off & kill a bear they were relocating. The bear was killed by what appeared to be a S&W mod 66 .357 mag., while it was attacking the warden.
I'd rather take a chance on using a firearm than hoping that what's really nothing more than a large can of Mace will deter an animal bent on seriously harming me or those I am with.
CQB27
US Veteran
Reminds me of the old joke:
Park Ranger: "We advise that all hikers attach small bells to their packs and carry a large can of pepper spray. The bells will warn any bears of your approach, and the pepper spray can be used if attacked. You should also keep an eye out for bear scat, so you can determine if black bear or grizzly bear are in the area.
Concerned Hiker: "How can we tell the difference in black bear and grizzly bear scat?"
Park Ranger: "Well that's easy. Black bear scat is darker and has small berry seeds in it. Grizzly bear scat will have small bells in it and smell like pepper spray."
Park Ranger: "We advise that all hikers attach small bells to their packs and carry a large can of pepper spray. The bells will warn any bears of your approach, and the pepper spray can be used if attacked. You should also keep an eye out for bear scat, so you can determine if black bear or grizzly bear are in the area.
Concerned Hiker: "How can we tell the difference in black bear and grizzly bear scat?"
Park Ranger: "Well that's easy. Black bear scat is darker and has small berry seeds in it. Grizzly bear scat will have small bells in it and smell like pepper spray."
BearBio
Member
VERY old joke!
From what I can gather, I guess it just depends. Like the use of pepper spray against criminal assailants, sometimes, for some unknown reason, it just doesn't work. Just makes 'em mad.
For example, one of our neighbors has a 6-month old Border Collie pup that loves to chase cars. The neighbor asked me if I knew how to get him to stop.
"It's fairly easy," I said. "Go down to Sportsman's Warehouse and buy the heavy duty bear spray. It's gonna cost about forty-five bucks, but it's worth it. Be sure you get the real heavy duty stuff...not the little canister that your wife keeps on her key chain. Then, get in the car and drive by your place so the dog will give chase. Then have one of the passengers armed with the bear spray and spray the heck out of the dog, making sure you get him in the mucous membranes...eyes, nose. You'll probably have to do it about two or three different times, but it works."
Well, they tried it. Sure enough, ol' Hank gave chase and they nailed him good right in the face. He stopped, shook his head a few times, tried to rub it off...but then he was okay and ready to give chase again.
Like I said, for some unknown reason, it seems to effect some differently than others.
As the poor guy said, I guess it's better than nothing. Still, whenever I'm in bear country, I take a handgun in .45 Colt and a stubby rifle in the same caliber, both loaded with fairly substantial loads (300 grn. J.F.N. 1325 F.P.S.).
Even with that, though, I still keep my fingers crossed and pray that I don't have an encounter.
For example, one of our neighbors has a 6-month old Border Collie pup that loves to chase cars. The neighbor asked me if I knew how to get him to stop.
"It's fairly easy," I said. "Go down to Sportsman's Warehouse and buy the heavy duty bear spray. It's gonna cost about forty-five bucks, but it's worth it. Be sure you get the real heavy duty stuff...not the little canister that your wife keeps on her key chain. Then, get in the car and drive by your place so the dog will give chase. Then have one of the passengers armed with the bear spray and spray the heck out of the dog, making sure you get him in the mucous membranes...eyes, nose. You'll probably have to do it about two or three different times, but it works."
Well, they tried it. Sure enough, ol' Hank gave chase and they nailed him good right in the face. He stopped, shook his head a few times, tried to rub it off...but then he was okay and ready to give chase again.
Like I said, for some unknown reason, it seems to effect some differently than others.
As the poor guy said, I guess it's better than nothing. Still, whenever I'm in bear country, I take a handgun in .45 Colt and a stubby rifle in the same caliber, both loaded with fairly substantial loads (300 grn. J.F.N. 1325 F.P.S.).
Even with that, though, I still keep my fingers crossed and pray that I don't have an encounter.
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BearBio
Member
There are numerous articles (scientific papers) that analyze firearms and bear spray. One examined almost 1000 attacks (author: Stephen Herrero) by three species of bears (polar, grizzly/brown and black).
See:
"Bear Attacks" (1985) (Stephen Herrero)
"Fatal attacks by American black bear on people: 1900–2009" (Herrero, et al)
" Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska"
TOM S. SMITH · STEPHEN HERRERO · CALI STRONG LAYTON · · KATHRYN R. JOHNSON
"Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska"
TOM S. SMITH · STEPHEN HERRERO · TERRY D. DEBRUYN · JAMES M. WILDER
"From the Field: Brown bear habituation to people—safety, risks, and benefits"
Stephen Herrero · Tom Smith · Terry D. DeBruyn · [...] · Colleen A. Matt
" Injury to People Inflicted by Black, Grizzly or Polar Bears: Recent Trends and New Insights"
Stephen Herrero · Susan Fleck
You can get copies of most of these (and more) at:
Stephen Herrero - Publications
Also, the warden who shot the bear was injured.
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da gimp
Member
But if the warden who was injured had not used his revolver... it is a certainty that his injuries would have been worse, if not fatal. He managed to kill the bear as it was chewing on him.
Folks have bled out in a short amount of time when arteries have been torn open. I was surprised that they did not have someone assigned to protect him with a large bore rifle or shotgun with slugs. My guess is that in the future they will have..
Folks have bled out in a short amount of time when arteries have been torn open. I was surprised that they did not have someone assigned to protect him with a large bore rifle or shotgun with slugs. My guess is that in the future they will have..
keith44spl
Member
When out and about in the tall and un-cut.......
I take my chance encounters with bears serious.
In addition to a heavy loaded 44 revolver, I carry this short rifle
loaded 'for bear' with some heavy Barnes bullets. It's jest purty handy.
If my horse smells bear or I do, I just slide it out of the scabbard and carry it
across the swells of my saddle. He who doesn't respect a bear, may well end up in a fix for sure.
.
I take my chance encounters with bears serious.
In addition to a heavy loaded 44 revolver, I carry this short rifle
loaded 'for bear' with some heavy Barnes bullets. It's jest purty handy.
If my horse smells bear or I do, I just slide it out of the scabbard and carry it
across the swells of my saddle. He who doesn't respect a bear, may well end up in a fix for sure.
.
