Déjà vu again and again.......
We don't normally discipline in public.
However, some of the hottest firefights we've had on this board have been in the reloading section. I find that surprising since handloading requires skill, knowledge, patience, experimentation, concentration, and discipline.
Under examination, one individual always seems to emerge as a key player in the meltdowns, and the history extends back for years.
See posts 21, 26, and 30 here:
What causes this?
Back to this thread-
Post #5
HOGWASH! HOGWASH! HOGWASH!
Only Post #5 in this thread, and any opinion not agreeing with you is HOGWASH. That is not how it works. See the post above about the Rules.
Post #21
I'm a trial lawyer with almost 30 years experience. I handle personal injury, family law, and criminal defense matters. If Rule 3 is a lawyer, I'll welcome a debate with him on this issue. If not, non-lawyers shouldn't give legal advice.
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jwk shows up and offers a very good argument here. If you read it and comprehend it, there is a very important legal fact there, but more on that later. You are, of course, free to embrace that viewpoint or politely reject it.
Post #31-
And let's see, lawyers....I trust them like the last two that were in the Whitehouse and the current two in there!
I see no reason for this. I don't think jwk is any of the above, but it sets a very negative tone for the future of this thread.
Post #21 again-
Guys the reason for not using handloads is because of evidence problems if you have a shooting where your story might be judged on ballistic evidence. With a box of factory ammo, you can buy another box have your expert shoot it to test what you are saying and be on safe grounds in his opinions. When you use a handload, you might have to personally testify to set a basis for your expert's opinions depending upon which jurisdiction you are in.
THE crux of the matter!
That's it!
If you don't believe that, or are not worried about that, carry handloads.
Big Deal.
I personally think this point is worth considering. If I'm ever brought to trial and ballistic evidence is crucial to my acquittal, I WOULD like for the expert to be able to buy the identical ammo off the shelf. I have no desire to be on the stand.
THANKS to jwk for clarifying the point for me.
Everyone else- do what you want.
Post #22-
Blujax01 said
"I'm just some dude with an opinion that is just as valid or invalid as yours."
He is right on one point. He probably has an invalid opinion.
Contentious and tactless.
Post #27-
It doesn't make a darn bit of difference whether it is a self defense or murder v suicide question at trial. The problem still exists of getting the evidence you need in to back up an expert's opinions to back up your story. If you get a bad judge, you have a real problem I think that in most cases I could probably get the expert's testimony in but in a serious case, I don't want to think that on a good day, I can get it into evidence, I want to absolutely know that I can. Which position would you want your lawyer to be in if he was representing you in a capital case?
jwk makes the point again.
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Post #45-
Skip,
While that is a decision that each person needs to make for himself, what burns my butt about the argument is that folks with no qualification to give the advice routinely tell people that there is no legal reason not to do so. That is not only giving legal advice without a license to do so but also telling a lie to someone who asked your advice.
Lame, lame, lame, counselor!
A >possibly< mistaken opinion is NOT necessarily a lie.
In Post #45, YOU tell us:
I'll put the honesty of lawyers as a whole against that of any other profession. We are the only profession that can be sanctioned for lieing which happens more often than you realize. Maybe it should happen more often but I'll guarantee that there is a lot more dishonesty in any other profession than the legal profession.
This is where you refute your own assertion that a mistaken opinion is a lie. You say lawyers don't lie. Okay, agreed. YET, there is one on each OPPOSING side of any legal case. Is one LYING, or does he merely have a different opinion of the facts?
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Post #47-
Funny, coming from a lawyer. Are you really going to try to lecture me about lying? REALLY? Any legal advice I give is this, and, you can read it above: Learn your local laws on deadly force and firearms.
Hypocritical is not strong enough of a word to explain a lawyer that is paid to tell half truths, lie on a regular basis and get paid for it, omit things that might hurt their client from being brought to light, that then tells an ordinary citizen that should they give their opinion, and clearly state it as such, is lying!
If it wasn't so sad, I'd be doing this:
Or this:
Or this!:
Last but not least, THIS!:
NOT the way to go.
By this time at the latest, reports should have been flying in to us. You have been told that many times.
WE will handle it.
Post #48-
Skip, the one time a lawyer called me a liar in court, I asked the court for a recess to take him out on the parking lot to have a serious discussion. I don't lie in court or to clients or to anyone else.
Next, you are right that I am lecturing you about lieing. If you or anyone else tells someone that there aren't legal issues with using handloads in a carry gun, you are lieing, plain and simple. Go back and read your posts and see if the shoe fits.
Again, you're wrong. An honest opinion is not necessarily a lie.
Post #49
Funny, coming from a lawyer. Are you really going to try to lecture me about lying? REALLY? Any legal advice I give is this, and, you can read it above: Learn your local laws on deadly force and firearms.
Hypocritical is not strong enough of a word to explain a lawyer that is paid to tell half truths, lie on a regular basis and get paid for it, omit things that might hurt their client from being brought to light, that then tells an ordinary citizen that should they give their opinion, and clearly state it as such, is lying!
If it wasn't so sad, I'd be doing this:
Or this:
Or this!:
Last but not least, THIS!:
I have to repost this!
A childish repeat.
Post #52
Skip,
keep giving your weaselly answer if that is that is the kind of guy you are. Technically you're telling the truth but you're being a weasel ignoring matters that aren't statutory but that could hang you in the wrong circumstances. ................
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Frankly, if that is the kind of guy you are, you might want to wipe that Marine Corp emblem off your banner because you aren't being a credit to them. I've seen Marines with a lot of problems at one time or another but they seemed like good men to me. You're the first one that I have ever seen that was weaselly and I have no respect for that.
Jim Keene
You are well over the line now.
I'll bet you don't lose it like that in court.
Post #54-
Blujax, ......................
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you're obviously either:
1) too dense to understand the problem;
2) too intellectually dishonest to admit that you understand the situation but choose to ignore it; or
3) just so stuck on your handloads just have to be better and you're going to ignore any comments to the contrary.
I will point out with that type logic, you would never make it through law school or any other type of educational field requiring something other than an answer involving only numbers and decimal points.
Stick your fingers in your ears and chant as loud as you can "there isn't a case" if it makes you feel better. You can stand right next to the other fool who is chanting "there isn't a law". While you guys continue doing that, I'll explain the problem to folks, most of whom get it and go from there.
Not on my board.
Way beyond acceptable.
Jim, using that same logic, I have an uncle that has the same last name as you. He is one of the best men I have ever known and you sir, are a disgrace to his name. I think that you should stop spouting your garbage and change your name so you quit disgracing his.
A provoked, but very unacceptable remark in a fight you started.
Post #58
In my little neck of the woods it snows & people have driveways, sidewalks, etc. to shovel/snow removal. In this day & age of anyone can sue anyone for anything. The stinkin lawyers got it sooooo twisted up that no one will shovel their sidewalks anymore. The lawyers argument was that if I shovel my sidewalk I’m not an expert & if anyone slips/falls on that sidewalk it will be due to my neglance because I don’t know what I’m doing. The moral of the story:
No one in our town shovels their sidewalk for fear of being sued (if I don’t shovel then whoever walks on that sidewalk should be able to see the danger & act accordingly). So now everyone who is walking just walks down the plowed streets stopping/blocking traffic. And everyone knows what will happen if a motorist hits a pedestrian.
Stinkin lawyers!!!!
In any lawyers eyes no one is an expert and that is their argument/shoe in for any case. And I mean anything from the possible personal injury that the grease did to my body 40 years later from when I got my hands dirty putting the chain on my bike back on when I was a kid to why the store owner is responsible for my DUI because they sold me that 12 pack & should of know I’d drink it.
Stinkin lawyers!!!!
Well in this day & age I’m not an expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn a couple of times & learned that the idiots that bring these lawsuits on aren’t experts either. Their nothing more than stinkin lawyers & I fight fire with fire. I have hired a stinkin lawyer in the past to go after another stinkin lawyer (it reminded me of a Tijuana chicken fight/a lot of cluckin & kickin goin on).
Everyone should have the mentality that they are going to go after any of these stinkin lawyers, prosecutors, LEO’s or anyone else with another stinkin lawyer. People will find that they will easily win these types of cases & it will put an end to this stupid stinkin lawyer fueled urban legend.
Me, if I or my misses ever have to use deadly force we are going to use the most devastating, destructive bullet I can cast, swage, alter, manipulate, create. If the stinkin lawyers want to bring in an expert, then so be it. I’ll gladly tell them that I made that bullet to be the most destructive thing I could make, I loaded it with the strongest/hottest powder I could find to make it the most powerful bullet in the whole wide world. Because I made that bullet for self-defense to counter any deadly attacks on myself & anyone else I cared to protect from the deadly force that was being used upon them or myself. In my inexperienced mind (non-expert) the quicker I can dispatch/end the deadly force being inflicted upon someone, the better. And if their “expert” can give any pointers on how to make something hotter/hit harder/ or deadlier design than what I’m using, I’m all ears. Moreover, I don’t care if they lived or died, my sole intend was to stop the deadly or what I perceived as deadly force as quickly as I possibly could. Also I’m not a trained for anything in the medical field (that stinkin lawyer thing & I’m not an expert so don’t do it), so 1, I can’t clearly say what deadly force actually is because I’m not a trained professional & 2, I stood by & watched them bleed out. Again I’m not an expert didn’t want no stinkin lawyer suing me because I did something wrong trying to save their life after I shot them.
On a side note, two of my favorite homemade SD bullets:
The concave X’d hp for the 38 snub nose (upright). And the (sideways) anti- personal/anti-zombie/anti- educated zombie (stinkin lawyer) “screw you” bullet for the 357.
We're already shovelling tons of BS, so I'm not sure why we need to go into shovelling snow.
Post #95
Stinkin lawyers never know when to quit!!!!
Apparently, neither do you.
Post #106
When the stinkin lawyers get involved in politics their true colors come out.
Politics, the word is derived from the word poly (meaning many) & ticks (blood sucking parasites)
Know you know why soooo many stinkin lawyers get involved in politics.
We won't be bashing the whole group of lawyers in the country.
Post #63-
++++++++++
To live as I choose is neither childish nor selfish; to require others to live as I choose is both.
The best remark made in this entire thread!
EVERYONE- READ it again for future reference.
Post #101-
OK ,,,
So now you guys all have me worried ,,, if I find myself in a potentially deadly situation,,, do I grab my GUN or do I grab my LAWYER ???
Since someone reopened this thread, I'll answer this question.
Grab the lawyer first then the gun. Use the lawyer as a shield.
Useless, but you can have a free ride.
Post #103
Mr. Lawyer didn't have to give us his name and Bar number to prove he's a lawyer, his extremely long and winded posts did that for him. Then when you think the torture is over Mr. Lawyer brings back a 6 month dead thread just so he can see his words on the screen again.
So much to say but who really cares? Blah, Blah, Blah! And lawyers wonder why no one likes them?
You could ignore it.
You could actually help us out and report it.
Or, you could fan the flames a little.
Still, you get a freebie also.
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Bottom Line-
Skip,
you are banned permanently.
You've always been an asset as an expert handloader.
You've always been a liability because you've viewed this as
your area, and your opinions as being beyond question.
jwk,
you get 10 off.
I really appreciate the good data you provided.
I do not appreciate the delivery and the insults to the members.
When/if you come back, enjoy the board but don't let it wind you too tight.
We are not changing the world here.
Forrest r,
Take 3 off.
When/if you come back, remember we won't be insulting
any group or profession as a whole that participates here. We also don't do politics.
Remember Folks-
This area is about reloading.
Everyone has a right to their opinions, right or wrong.
Treat each other with the dignity and respect this board is known for.
HELP us out-
REPORT posts that get out of line with the
found at top right of every post.
The Rules apply here- EVERY day.
Proof of that is available on demand.
