Today in Texas - open carry on the horizon

[mustangman]

Glad to see this moving forward. Personal opinions aside, every new gun law is a loss for the anti-gun groups, and that's what matters. Making Bloomberg and his minions irrelevant while expanding gun rights is a huge win for the law abiding, freedom loving citizens of Texas.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Not sure where you're getting that mandatory concept from, Mike. Can you point me to a rule somewhere? DPS says this:

"Every effort" does not equate to "mandatory".

60 days
Here you go Yoda. Just search "Texas CHL Laws". It's a downloadable PDF file.



GOVERNMENT CODE
Chapter 411 DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS
Subchapter D
Administrative Division

GC §411.177. ISSUANCE OR DENIAL OF LICENSE. (a) The department shall issue a license to carry a concealed handgun to an applicant if the applicant meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all the application materials.
The department shall administer the licensing procedures in good faith so that any applicant who meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all the application materials shall receive a license. The department may not deny an application on the basis of a capricious or arbitrary decision by the department.
(b) The department shall, not later than the 60th day after the date of the receipt by the director’s designee of the completed application materials:
(1) issue the license;
(2) notify the applicant in writing that the application was denied:
(A) on the grounds that the applicant failed to qualify under
the criteria listed in Section 411.172;
(B) based on the affidavit of the director’s designee
submitted to the department under Section 411.176(c); or
(C) based on the affidavit of the qualified handgun instructor
submitted to the department under Section 411.188(k); or
(3) notify the applicant in writing that the department is unable to make a determination regarding the issuance or denial of a license to the applicant within the 60-day period prescribed by this subsection and include in that notification an explanation of the reason for the inability and an estimation of the amount of time the department will need to make the determination.
(c) Failure of the department to issue or deny a license for a period of more than 30 days after the department is required to act under Subsection (b) constitutes denial.
(d) A license issued under this subchapter is effective from the date of issuance.
---
Last amended by Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1302 (H.B. 3142), Sec. 5, eff. June 14,
2013.

 

[Yiogo]

Open carry should happen in TX. Does it make sense that concealed carry is allowed but open is not?
In NH, open is allowed without a permit and concealed with a permit.
I see few people exercising open carry.
Perhaps it will be the same way in TX after awhile.
Yiogo

 

[TX-Dennis]

Concealed yes with property owner's permission.....But, how about Open Carry at his BBQ,
can the property owner grant permission for open carry?



.

Not legally, I fear. I can open carry in my own yard, but if I step into the neighbor's yard I am in violation.

 

[keith44spl]

Not legally, I fear. I can open carry in my own yard, but if I step into the neighbor's yard I am in violation.

Yup, that's my interpretation the statute as well.

Sad ain't it.

But, maybe that'll all change here before too awful long.


Thanks,
Dave

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Mike, I have read that many times - I'm an instructor, too. But there is a loophole:

(c) Failure of the department to issue or deny a license for a period of more than 30 days after the department is required to act under Subsection (b) constitutes denial.

That gives them 90 days. You cannot DO anything if they take longer than 60 days, they say they're trying, but they don't have to as long as they get you the renewal in 90 days.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Not legally, I fear. I can open carry in my own yard, but if I step into the neighbor's yard I am in violation.

That is not exactly correct. If you open carry in your backyard and step into your neighbor's backyard without permission you're in violation. If your neighbor says "come on over, wear your gun", and you are open carrying then you can just meander over into his yard legally carrying openly.

 

[ironhead7544]

I lived in AZ before they had CCW. Open carry was legal and a lot of people carried. Didnt create any problems as people were used to it. Never heard of anyone having their gun stolen from them when open carried, but it may have happened.

 

[TX-Dennis]

That is not exactly correct. If you open carry in your backyard and step into your neighbor's backyard without permission you're in violation. If your neighbor says "come on over, wear your gun", and you are open carrying then you can just meander over into his yard legally carrying openly.

Can you quote "chapter and verse" in the law that explicitly allows that? I could be wrong, but I don't see that provided for in Texas law.

 

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda
That is not exactly correct. If you open carry in your backyard and step into your neighbor's backyard without permission you're in violation. If your neighbor says "come on over, wear your gun", and you are open carrying then you can just meander over into his yard legally carrying openly.

Can you quote "chapter and verse" in the law that explicitly allows that? I could be wrong, but I don't see that provided for in Texas law.

Dennis,

Like you, I didn't think a neighbor can give me permission to over-ride Texas statute....

i.e. PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS

. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his
or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:​

(1) on the person’s own premises or premises under the person’s control;


*

If my neighbor leased his property to me, so it was under my legal control,
say like a hunting lease, etc... that might fly.

But, just for a visit or BBQ....I just don't interpret the statues that way either.


.

 

[Ky Cowboy]

I just ordered my buscadero belt rig from El Paso Saddlery and 2 nickel plated SSA's from Colt's custom shop. I'm looking for the Hopalong Cassidy look!

Ah yes, another two-gun friend !!!

 

[HorizontalMike]

Mike, I have read that many times - I'm an instructor, too. But there is a loophole:

That gives them 90 days. You cannot DO anything if they take longer than 60 days, they say they're trying, but they don't have to as long as they get you the renewal in 90 days.

Knowing how all of our government employees "work" , you are most likely correct.

Guess that I'll just have to sit and wait...

Maybe I should take a trip to the range and get over it...

 

[FTG-05]

OC is great!

OC'd my S&W 329PD into my bank yesterday. The people there were as helpful as always. Same with those at the Tractor Supply place. Then it was the L&S grocery store, the only problem there: they don't sell beer. Oh well, a simple stop at my local Piggly Wiggly, beer problem solved.

Then I stopped by a guy selling a UTV/side by side - he thought I was carrying a Ruger Redhawk - I almost felt insulted.

Another day, same difference.

 

[HorizontalMike]

HUH?!

OC is great!

OC'd my S&W 329PD into my bank yesterday. The people there were as helpful as always. Same with those at the Tractor Supply place. Then it was the L&S grocery store, the only problem there: they don't sell beer. Oh well, a simple stop at my local Piggly Wiggly, beer problem solved.

Then I stopped by a guy selling a UTV/side by side - he thought I was carrying a Ruger Redhawk - I almost felt insulted.

Another day, same difference.

GEEZ! Are you trying to get a Texan shot?!

Open Carry into a bank in Texas will get you killed! Pay attention kind sir!!!!!... The OP is about TEXAS! Make a note of that!

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I just wrote a long response to this and it crashed - that happens when I take too long on this computer. So, short answer.....

I am completely convinced that private property rights supersede state law in this context, to wit, while you cannot normally give someone permission to commit a crime in your backyard, you have the right to permit someone to openly carry a firearm there in the same manner as you are permitted to do so under state law. It is NOT illegal per se if you can do it. That's a critical piece of important information to consider.

You basically transfer that right to your guests. Or you give that much control of your private property to your guests.

You can, as I am sure that you all know, EXCLUDE guns from your private property, concealed or not. If you have the right to exclude guns then it follows, a fortiori, that you have the right to permit them.

I concluded my lost response with a challenge - I defy any lawyer to prove me wrong by showing me a successful prosecution of any person in Texas ever convicted of carrying a handgun openly on private property when the Texas citizen had the landowner's permission to do it - assuming no other crime was committed.

Just for a visit or a barbecue.........indeed you can. It is hard to prove a negative but find the case law that says I am wrong and I'll issue a public apology on the subject.

You law enforcement officers out there - come on, tell me when you arrested someone for this and the person wasn't no billed by a grand jury. Your interpretation of the law is one thing - successful prosecutions are another.

 

[kbm6893]

Seems like a lot of effort went into something that yielded very little rewards. And the whack jobs with AR's slung over their shoulders at a Target or the state capital might have impressed a few hard core gun rights advocates, but not me and certainly not the general public. If anything, they gave more ammunition to the anti-gunners, who will use those images, like they do the images of Sandy hook, to generate enough passion to pass MORE restrictive laws.

That being said, I do no get the benefit of open carry. In certain environments, I get it. No sense hiding a gun when you're camping, hiking, or fishing. But this bill only allows people who have a concealed permit to carry openly. I live in an OC state. I see about 3-4 people a year do it. And they ALL have that "look at me, I have a gun" look on their faces. Just last week, I took my son to a Scouts event. Some fat guy wearing a Army Rangers t-shirt (he was about 26. No Ranger there), and a Glock on his hip. I'm sure he felt bad-***. And there I was, with my Ruger LC9-S concealed in my waistband. No less armed than he was, but not calling attention to myself or annoying parents who clearly did not want to sit near him.

But states can do what states want to do, so if texas wants this, who am I to complain? A better fight would have been NOT charging a person who WAS concealing his weapon whose gun was accidentally exposed as his shirt lifted up when he reached for something.

As for training, I have ZERO problem with it. Too many idiots don't take the time to get any, or the training they get is from somebody equally clueless. I have left the range MANY times when they show up and show their true abilities. The right to own a weapon doesn't trump the right of some innocent person NOT to catch a bullet because you're a moron who should have stuck with a Red Ryder BB gun. Cost is too high? Guess you had nothing left over from your $700 purchase of gun, mags, lasers, and holsters? Skip on the Starbucks a few times and it's paid for.

 

[ladder13]

But states can do what states want to do, so if texas wants this, who am I to complain?

EXACTLY.

Hard core gun rights advocate here.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Seems like a lot of effort went into something that yielded very little rewards. And the whack jobs with AR's slung over their shoulders at a Target or the state capital might have impressed a few hard core gun rights advocates, but not me and certainly not the general public. If anything, they gave more ammunition to the anti-gunners, who will use those images, like they do the images of Sandy hook, to generate enough passion to pass MORE restrictive laws.

I listened to folks express similar thinking a year or so ago, saying that Texas OC demonstrations would result in a roll back of current gun freedoms and OC had no chance of becoming law anyway.

Roll forward..... To the contrary, it looks like OC has a good chance of becoming law and there is other pro gun legislation being considered.

Now demonstrated to be flawed thinking, I'm curious why that same flawed thinking persists.

 

[keith44spl]

I just wrote a long response to this and it crashed - that happens when I take too long on this computer. So, short answer.....

I am completely convinced that private property rights supersede state law in this context, to wit, while you cannot normally give someone permission to commit a crime in your backyard, you have the right to permit someone to openly carry a firearm there in the same manner as you are permitted to do so under state law. It is NOT illegal per se if you can do it. That's a critical piece of important information to consider.

You basically transfer that right to your guests. Or you give that much control of your private property to your guests.

You can, as I am sure that you all know, EXCLUDE guns from your private property, concealed or not. If you have the right to exclude guns then it follows, a fortiori, that you have the right to permit them.

I concluded my lost response with a challenge - I defy any lawyer to prove me wrong by showing me a successful prosecution of any person in Texas ever convicted of carrying a handgun openly on private property when the Texas citizen had the landowner's permission to do it - assuming no other crime was committed.

Just for a visit or a barbecue.........indeed you can. It is hard to prove a negative but find the case law that says I am wrong and I'll issue a public apology on the subject.

You law enforcement officers out there - come on, tell me when you arrested someone for this and the person wasn't no billed by a grand jury. Your interpretation of the law is one thing - successful prosecutions are another.

I feel ya man..........

We all know there's a big grey area between what's right
and what the law sometimes states by way of statute.

Being charged is one thing.....And convicted is another.
It's a roll of the dice now'n'days.

Let's jest let all this pass and the governor sign's it and life will go on....Business as usual.


I'm lookin forward to retirement on the south side of the Red River....In the Lone Star.
.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

As for training, I have ZERO problem with it. Too many idiots don't take the time to get any, or the training they get is from somebody equally clueless. I have left the range MANY times when they show up and show their true abilities. The right to own a weapon doesn't trump the right of some innocent person NOT to catch a bullet because you're a moron who should have stuck with a Red Ryder BB gun. Cost is too high? Guess you had nothing left over from your $700 purchase of gun, mags, lasers, and holsters? Skip on the Starbucks a few times and it's paid for.

Are you talking about government madatory training to carry?

There are states that require no mandatory training and those that do. There is nothing to suggest any measurable benefit in reduced carry accidents or anything else that I am aware of.

When talking about OC, you continue to object using arguments of no benefit. Do you have some safety/accident data to share with us demonstrating how states that require training for carry benefit from reduced gun carry accidents?