What's your experience with the M-14

[jdlii]

Thank all of you who served our country! It is impressive to read the posts of so many who served and used the M14.

I never had the honor or privilege of serving in the armed forces but, I did shoot the M14 and M1A in high power competition for twenty years. The M14's were issued to our state association and were all match rifles with the selector switch removed and replaced by a nonfunctional knob. I was issued one when I made the state team.

My M1A was match conditioned with a heavy barrel and the oversized stock. The fit and feel of the standard issue stock was "handier" but, the ability of the oversized stock to absorb recoil and provide a rock solid cheek weld was a big plus.

With "white box" match the rifles were capable of 1 to 1.5 MOA groups at 200 yards. Hand loads, using 168gr. match bullets, would produce smaller groups. Clean scores are possible at 200, 300 and 600 yards with the right loads and bullet weights. The 175gr. match bullets and other VLD bullets can further enhance performance.

Magazines can be a problem to obtain due to cost but, they are available and Pmags, I think, are available. The M14 platform has changed for the military and they are primarily scoped for designated squad marksman. The "new" platforms are reliable and extremely accurate.

You have to "learn" how to shoot the M1A but, the effort is worth the reward. Unless I was going to shoot competition, I would probably opt for the scout model. Even with the shorter barrel, don't discount the long range potential with the right load and optic.

Lock and load!

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The fundamental purpose of full-auto fire is to increase the probability of hits on moving targets or at extended ranges.

The standard M14 service rifle proved to be unsuitable for full-auto use. Standard barrels overheated very quickly causing the rifle to become unusable. Recoil of the 7.62X51 made control very difficult in full-auto mode, even when used with the standard detachable bipod.

Every standard M14 I used in the Army had the selector switch removed, allowing only semi-auto mode. Focus of all training was controlled and accurate firing, as well as conserving ammunition in combat (7.62X51 ammo is HEAVY and the magazines are bulky, so each soldier can carry only so much; typically 5 magazines of 20 rounds each).

Basic training (also at Ft. Jackson, SC) in 1968. My rifle was manufactured by TRW (satellite company in California), very heavily worn from countless cycles of trainees constantly disassembling, reassembling, humping, and rifle training. When held in one hand and shaken it sounded like a steel bucket full of nickels. But on the rifle range it performed perfectly every time. Qualification course was 82 pop-up silhouette targets at ranges from 75 to 360 meters, timed exposure of the targets depended on range (most in the 5 to 10 seconds range, with a target presented and not engaged counting as a miss), with 84 rounds allowed. My rifle produced a perfect score, providing me with the Expert Marksman badge, a 3-day pass, and the post rifle trophy for our Day Room display (along with huge bragging rights for my Drill Sergeant).

Later, during infantry AIT, we trained on the M14E2, specifically designed for use as an automatic rifle. Heavier barrel, full pistol grip stock, built-in steel bipod, modified flash suppressor (about 15 lbs IIRC). Always used from supported positions (foxhole, breastwork, prone). Emphasis was on controlled 3-round bursts, requiring concentration on the trigger. Training targets included multiple man-size silhouettes, old vehicles, various suspended moving targets, all primarily at extended ranges (300 to 500 meters). Qualified with the M14E2, then never saw another one in actual issue or use; all of the infantry units I served in or observed had the M60 light machineguns by that time so the M14E2 was pretty much superfluous.

Got to Vietnam in 1969. By that time much of the turmoil of the early M16's had been experienced and the M16A1 was pretty much standardized. There were still a few M14's on hand, usually reserved for senior NCO's who had grown up with M1's and had a lot of experience with the M14's. I was eventually able to trade for one from a ARVN source known to our Vietnamese interpreter, and when I left I had no difficulty finding a new home for that rifle.

For shooting (especially at longer ranges) or for static defense I would choose the M14 any day. For patrol or fluid combat situations my nod goes to the M16A1.

 

[walkin' trails]

My experience with the M14 is limited, but I always thought it was a sweet shooting rifle in relation to its caliber and weight. I never had to "hump" with one, as I attended basic in 1981 with the M16A1. The M16/M4 is the system I'm most comfortable with. Those of you who started with the M14 echo the same sentiments of just about every vet I've ever talked to in respect to the era they served and the rifles they trained with. A friend of mine, who also went through basic in the late 60s had similar regard for the M14, and finally fell into a sweet deal on an M1A National Match.

 

[Donn]

Basic training, Ft. Knox, Spring 1969. Qualified expert with my M-14. If I could see the target, I could hit it. I've got a soft spot for the 14, always will. That said, I'm glad I didn't have to hump it in-country. Fast forward to now. I'd love to have a Springfield M1A. Sadly, it's above my pay grade. I just have to muddle thru with my M1 Garand.

 

[NYlakesider]

My experience with a M14. Got to hold one for a couple minuets when I was at boot camp at Great Lakes in the 60s.

With that said the M14 and the BAR are on my bucket list of "got to shoot". Living in the peoples republic of NY that aint going to happen here. When we travel out of state I have shot a bunch of Full Auto guns.

I really want to try a BAR, but would not be disappointing to get my hands on a M14 in its place.

 

[ACP230]

I was not in the Armed Forces. Did shoot an M1A in NRA Highpower
Rifle Matches for a few years. Started out with a bolt rifle, moved to an M1, experimented with an M1 Carbine, and an AR as well. Did best with the M1A. Found it easy to make accurate reloads for it too.

At a MG shoot in Minnesota I got to shoot an M14. Since I'd shot a fair
amount of full auto by then (some at the Second Chance Bowling Pin
Shoot), I found it fairly easy to control off the bipod, as long as I shot 3-4
shot bursts. One of my favorite full autos to shoot although I only got
one chance to do so.

 

[mg357]

My Uncle Charlie was in the U.S. Army from 1964-1967 and his service rifle was the M14 and he had great admiration for that rifle.

 

[Zebadiah]

US Marine Corps Recruit Depot, summer 1963. My M14 rusted on one end while I oiled the other end. Shot Marksman due to the weird shooting positions they demanded. Once out in the real world at Camp Lejeune, NC, I qualified Expert, scoring almost perfectly at 500 yards, as I was allowed to shoot in more comfortable positions. When a lieutenant range officer did complain about my prone position, my corporal range coach told him, "When you can shoot half as good as he can, you can tell him how to shoot. Until then, get the (deleted) off my range!" ...whereupon said lieutenant quickly and silently departed. I never saw or heard anything like that ever again during my enlistment. As much as I liked the M14, as a 2533 Radiotelegraph Operator, my TOE weapon was a 1911 that was much lighter to hump on our every Monday morning, full pack, force march that Colonel Gately imposed on everyone in Headquarters Battalion, Second Marine Division, as a highly effective deterrent to weekend alcohol consumption. He was a genius; his highly rapid force marches were tough on all of us but were killers to hungover Marines. I believe Colonel Gately could even straighten out Obamacare singlehandedly.

 

[BUFF]

I never served in the military, my sincere thanks to those who did.

Anybody know where the line, "Some of the best days of my life were spent with an M-14 in my hands..." came from?

I always wanted an M-14-type rifle, but the only quality civilian option at the time was the S.A., Inc. M-1A, which was usually too pricey for a young handgunner. (Why are handgunners usually poor while shotgunners seem to be so rich?)

The Utah Highway Patrol got about 200 surplus M-14's from the Army/law enforcement assistance program. I shot the one issued to a good friend and was greatly impressed. Handling an M-14 instills one with the feeling that, yes, by gosh, THIS is a real RIFLE!

I wanted a .308 battle rifle badly and, still poor, built a couple of FALs from newly made semiauto receivers and parts kits from disassembled selective fire FALs and L1A1's. Great rifles, I love them dearly, but the M-14 has far, far better sights and those sights are all attached to one, non-moving assembly while the FAL design has one sight each on two different assemblies just hinged together.

Eventually I bought an S.A., Inc. M-1A Super Match in a McMillain stock with the heavy barrel and the other goodies. Too heavy for me for a field shooter, and I traded it off. I now have an M-14 clone built by a well-known Camp Perry military rifle builder marked SMITH, LTD. Looks like all NOS USGI parts from TRW, I think. Again, holding it gives me that "Now, THIS is a RIFLE!" feeling.

I am about to thin my herd down and will probably just keep a couple of FALs, and put the Smith, LTD on the market.

If laws permitted it everywhere, a man could go through life with an M-14 as his only centerfire rifle and do just fine.

 

[akjaeger]

The M-14 is my favorite rifle to shoot in the field. While it may not be as mechanically accurate as some of my other rifles, it just seems easier to "hit" with. I've shot high-power matches and hunted with mine, killing elk, deer, coyotes and even a wolf.

 

[federali]

Similar Story

I too met the M-14 in 1967, basic training at Ft. Jackson SC. I was issued an M-14 for most of my tour in South Vietnam which followed beginning October of 1967.

I was very confident with that rifle but as others have said, the gun was useless in full auto unless shooting holes in the air counted for something.

Frankly, I'd like to own the civilian version of the rifle but it is an expensive toy and the nearest hundred-yard range is a 90-minute drive for me.

 

[nodpete]

I just remembered something (At least I think I did) about why the Military switched to the M-14. As I recall, we were told it was because they wanted to have the same round as the other NATO forces, the 7.62mm. Remember the Cold War was hitting it's peak then and everybody thought we were going to have trouble with Russia. Then of course Vietnam came up and changed everything.
Another memory as I type this. I was stationed in Germany from 60 - 63 and sometime around the Fall of 62, there was a paper on the barracks bulletin board saying "Re-up and get a $2000 dollar bonus and learn to fly a helicopter" it went on to say that flying the chopper was just to transport "advisors" in Vietnam. I don't think anybody took them up on the offer. Little did we know what was about to happen.

 

[Grayfox]

When I was in High School, ROTC was a required course for all boys. Two years was mandatory with the third year optional. I had made the rifle team and thus took the third year.
The first two years our drill rifles were the M1 Garand. The third year we switched to M-14s. Although we never got to shoot them, we did develop a great love and respect for these fine weapons.
In 1972 I graduated high school and joined the Army. In basic at Ft. Leonard Wood I was issued a M-16A1. I disliked it from the first time I laid my hands on one. I do admit that they were very accurate and easy to shoot. But that was only when you could get the damned thing to work.
Over the next three years I was issued several different M-16A1s and none of them was ever truly reliable. I both experienced and witnessed far to many malfunctions to ever trust those things.
As a driver of a tracked vehicle I was supposed to have a 1911. However, we didn't have enough to go around. One of my best days in the service was the day the armorer took away my M-16 and issued me an old M-3A1 Grease Gun. Now that was a weapon I could trust.

Fast forward to 1999. The Y2K scare was in full bloom and it occurred to me that I didn't own a semi-auto centerfire rifle of any kind and this might be a good time to get one. I went to a gun show. I remember standing in front of a table with an AR-15 in my hands and money in my pocket. But I just couldn't do it. My distrust for the platform ran too deep.
A little while later I came across a guy walking around with a Federal Ordnance M-14A for sale. I bought it and never looked back.
Since then I've added a Springfield Scout/Squad and a Soccom 16 to the safe. These are rifles you can believe in.

 

[Richard Simmons]

My last ship duty was in 2003. Ship's security still used M-14s at the time. I bet they still do. Shore security might be engaged in CQB but, as a rule, ship's security is shooting from the deck - they need longer range accuracy and - think USS Cole - they might have to sink something. 5.56 NATO versus 7.62 NATO is an easy decision for these purposes. Ship's Captain selecting .30 caliber every time would never surprise me.

I wouldn't be surprised. We were also still using the M60 and the M79 back then. Those have probably been replaced since I got out though without an
M16 of some type to mount an M203 the M79 might still be serving onboard ship.

When I was on shore duty we used the M14 for funeral details to render salutes so they weren't just relegated to shipborne armories.

 

[mgort]

Basic Training at Ft. Polk,LA in August with the M-14

In 1968, as a result of the draft, I found myself in Basic Training @ Ft. Jackson, S.C. It is there that I first encountered the M-14. It's been a long time since but here's what I remember of that training & experience.
The rifle was heavy, especially since we had to force march with it with full backpacks and steel helmets (this was in the S.C. summer). There was no rubber butt plate...just a steel one that let your shoulder know it, after a day at the range. We fired it from various positions: including the prone, seated, standing and the squat. I remember that at the prone position the man-sized targets were far away...I think 300 yards. You could barely see it but you did eventually hit it. No scopes.
The most difficult position by far was the squatting one. I don't remember the distance but I do remember it was difficult to maintain a steady hold.

I've had a dozen or so rifles since then but can say if I were limited to 1 rifle I would choose the M14, perhaps because of my familiarity with it and what I learned it can do.

Of all the things I encountered during Basic, grenade throwing & shooting the M-14 were the most fun.

Backlighting, I can relate! Basic training, Fort Polk, LA, August and September, 1969. Carrying the M-14 in Central Louisiana 7 miles each way, full pack and kit, and steel helmet. Our DIs loved to double time 100, quick time 100 both ways.

The 9 pound weight helped absorb recoil, but I do remember the pounding we would take from that metal butt plate. The aperture front sight was surprisingly effective out to 300 meters. If I remember correctly, it was a course of fire from 50 to 300 meters, from standing, kneeling, and prone, slow-fire and rapid-fire.

I qualified expert on the M-14 at Ft. Polk in late August or early Sept. and also qualified expert o. The M-16 at Fort Rucker, AL in the Spring of 1969 during advanced helicopter training. The M-14 was the best, most reliable, and most fun weapon I trained with untiltraining at Fort Polk on UH1C gunships. The mini-gun and 2.75 inch rockets were awesome, but nothing beat the 40 mm automatic grenade launcher. It had a hand held, articulated aiming system used by the pilot in the left seat. The 40 mm grenades were visible in flight, and the control srstem made it easy to "walk" the rounds on target by the 3rd or 4th rounds , even while the aircraft commander was flying the aircraft down the range at 120 knots. On the range, we were able to put rounds through the windshield or side window during full speed runs, usually by the 5th or six rounds. The nose turret mounted grenade launcher "chunked" rounds at 150 rounds per minute.

And then I made the brilliant decision to fly unarmed medivac for my combat tour in Vietnam.

 

[BigBill]

I'm new to the m14, I picked up a Chinese norinco m14s clone. It appears that it was never shot, I purchased every 308 headspace gauge offered even the 308 NATO set. So I could check it and stay on top of it. I heard the headspace problems can occur with any m14 no matter who made it.
Now upon my inspection I noticed the trigger assembly is numbered. That's a usgi trigger assembly I been told. The Chinese had some usgi surplus parts. Now it had a loose op rod guide block. I removed the pin and using loctite 620 for cylinderical parts I loctite the op rod guide block inplace. I read that's all we do. I went up one size in the dowel pin and reamed the hole and drove the pin in. I staked it like the orginal. I spared no swings of the hammer. The loctite didn't budg while driving the pin in. The headspace is on the lower 308 NATO setting, installed the nm op rod spring guide with the wolf op rod spring. I went to add the metric larger mag release lever and found out it's in inch size(pin/bore).

No I need to test fire it and sight her in.

 

[richardw]

My experience with the M14 followed my experience with the M1, which I trained on in boot camp at Paris Island, SC. When in Infantry Training Regiment at Camp Lejune NC after PI was issued a M14. Had an M14 during my first two tours in Nam. Third tour was in Reconnso had a M3 and 1911.

To the OP: if you think long long marches in SC in the summer were bad you would have been shocked Nam where it is hot in the winter and damn near unbearable in the summer. How about raining ever day for a couple months not going in a long range patrol with 75 ponds of gear on your back and another 15 pounds in a rifle bayonet, water, etc.

But all that was bearable. It was the damn leaches that sucked onto you in the swamps, rice paddies, and other water. I'd take SC any day any time of year.

Oh forgot. The M14 was a good rifle. Reliable, high powered, easy to stop and clean. It just worked unlike the early M16s. Onlynpeoblem was the retainer tabsmon the magazines. If they get bent feed problems ensured. That was true of the M16 as well. Yes u might have seen war movies where GIs tap their magazines against there helmets. That was assure the tabs were properly positioned.

 

[Arm]

Fort Benning to Fort Lewis to the adventure paradise of VN....loved that rifle...66-67.

 

[usmc2427765]

I started out on the M-14 at Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, California in 1968 . I think it was one of the finest battle rifles ever designed. With a 20 round magazine of powerful 7.62 Nato, it was a weapon of mass destruction. It was heavy compared to the much lighter M-16,however you only needed to shoot things once to put them down. I shot expert with the rifle and it will always have a special place in my memories.

 

[BigBill]

The m14 is heavy now that I'm older. The Russian saiga in 308 is much lighter and accurate. Plus it's $289 price tag was hard to beat. I never seen a gun spit out rounds like an Russian ak.

 

[Targets Guy]

I have never been fortunate to shoot one but my brother was in the Army from 1960 -1962. He shot expert with it and said it was the best rifle he has ever shot.

 

[mgort]

<snip>
Another memory as I type this. I was stationed in Germany from 60 - 63 and sometime around the Fall of 62, there was a paper on the barracks bulletin board saying "Re-up and get a $2000 dollar bonus and learn to fly a helicopter" it went on to say that flying the chopper was just to transport "advisors" in Vietnam. I don't think anybody took them up on the offer. Little did we know what was about to happen.

@Nodpete: I bought that line and signed up for WORWAC (Warrant Officer Rotary Wing Aviation Course) to avoid being drafted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sodacan]

Patton would have liked the M-14 better than the Garand.

 

[M1A]

I had always wanted an M1 Garand. Ended up getting a Springfield M1A NM. Scoped it right away and went to the 200yd range.
A shooter, retired Army, in his 80's was a couple of benches down with his M14. I think he has six. Turns out to be a police sniper instructor. Asked me why I needed a scope with the great sights that came with the rifle. Scope off. He gave me a free lesson and still helps me.
The scope rarely gets used.
I love the rifle. And, yes, Patton would too.
A friend gave me his M6 that he had from Vietnam and I treasure that.
I did finally get the M1 Garand, M1903A3, and an Enfield Rifle No.4 Mk2. Iron sights while I can still see the target.

 

[ldausmc1369]

Shot high expert with the M14 on Dog Range at PISC. Carried one through ITR at Gieger. Never fired another one during my tour. Now own a 4 digit Springfield M1A with all H&R parts. Much more accurate tfan I am now. Great piece of walnut and steel.

 

[max]

It was 48 years ago yesterday that I was drafted. I can't remember how soon it was that we were issued our 14's.

 

[mx5racer]

Went trough Basic at Leonard Wood in the Summer of 69 with the 14. Then on to MP school at Ft Gordon and still the 14. I don't remember that we fired the 14 much, if at all there. When 20 of us got out orders for RVN we spent a few hours on the range firing the 16 on full auto. Now that was fun. I saw a few 14's while in RVN. I wish I had one now.

I was at Leonard Fall and Winter of '69/'70. Lots of quality time w/ a M14; still my all time favorite rifle. No amount of dirt/sand kept it from firing !

 

[ameridaddy]

Several posters complained about the M-14 steel butt plate. Never a problem for me, and I'd flip up the butt plate hinged cover for prone firing to keep the rifle placement really consistent.
The only thing that got sore for me was my cheekbone, right under my right eye, from my spotwelded thumb knuckle if we had a lengthy range session.
IIRC, some of those were more than 100 rounds. I remember one rapid fire/reload field of fire exercise burned off 100 rounds rapid fire. Some of the guys made the mistake of touching or grabbing the barrel afterward.
Bad idea. They only did that once.

We didn't know what earplugs were, so I think I lost some hearing, but at the time, the noise didn't seem bad unless somebody fired too close on the right. In that regard, long barrels are a Good Thing.

 

[fyimo]

In Vietnam in 1969 I carried a M-16 from March to September. In September the sniper assigned to my Platoon was wounded. He carried a M-14 Sniper Rifle and as Platoon Sgt. I was told I could carry it for my last 4 months in country. It was very accurate and a hoot to carry with it's scope and Starlite scope at night. It came with match ammo and it was very accurate.

 

[richcory]

Great stories in this thread

Cory