Why Not Have A Safety On An M+P ?

[mlhumphrey]

Rely on your brain instead for that. It is just as important to use the best possible gear for safety as well, which is why I wear an Ares Gear Ranger belt, Raven holster that has a lifetime guarantee. Too many $pend on a great gun but cut corners on their equipment.

Sounds like if you had a manuel safety on your gun you could have saved alot of money on accessories...

 

[kris7047th]

Sounds like if you had a manuel safety on your gun you could have saved alot of money on accessories...

Now that is about the dumbest thing I have read on any gun forum. A poorly made, designed holster can break off of a weak belt. Haven't you heard that the gear runs the mission?

Just how much do you value your life on a reliable gun, then only to depend on cheap equipment to run it ?
That makes absolutely NO $ense to me at all.

I get why you feel the need for manual safeties

 

[DGT]

Yawn..... Is it absolutely necessary that we all agree on this? Is there any reason that someone that prefers a safety be characterized as un-adult? That seems pretty harsh to me. I prefer a safety but, if some of my fellow gun owners don't, I have no problem with that.

 

[Silversmok3]

Yawn..... Is it absolutely necessary that we all agree on this? Is there any reason that someone that prefers a safety be characterized as un-adult? That seems pretty harsh to me. I prefer a safety but, if some of my fellow gun owners don't, I have no problem with that.

People are emotionally invested in their gun purchases. After all, unlike our DVD collections a gun could ensure one's very survival.

Thus, people develop attachments to THEIR weapons.This is actually a great thing;if you're not attached to your choice of firearm you won't know how to handle it when the flag flies.

The problems come up when Guy A is attached to his TDA 9mm, and Guy B is attached to his Glock 17. Once Guy C shows up with his granddad's 1911, fugedeboudit. The only thing keeping the argument civil at that point is the fact that everyone's armed!

"Your safety is retarded"
"Your 1911 is out of date"
"That S&W 459 is a solution to a non-existent problem"
"A Glock is a ND waiting to happen"

Unlike some people I left High School quite some time ago.

 

[mlhumphrey]

Now that is about the dumbest thing I have read on any gun forum. A poorly made, designed holster can break off of a weak belt. Haven't you heard that the gear runs the mission?

Just how much do you value your life on a reliable gun, then only to depend on cheap equipment to run it ?
That makes absolutely NO $ense to me at all.

I get why you feel the need for manual safeties

If you feel that buying expensive equipment makes you and your gun safer than so be it... Bottom line is, your gun will go bang if ever improperly handled, by you or ANYONE ELSE, mine will NOT, and if that ever happens, hopefully, you don't shoot yourself or someone else... You have to remember that since CCW has started we now have ALOT of people carrying guns, for the 1st time, more than ever before at any time... Many without any training and probably some not even knowing how to clean their guns, let alone, keep their finger off the trigger!... There are also many quality gun owners, possibly yourself and many others, that will have no problems in their lifetime carrying a gun with no manuel safety as they are more in tune with their firearm, but there are going to be more AC's as this portion of uneducated, 1st time, younger gun buyers increase and hopefully, I and any member of my family are not a victim of any... I understand also why that qualifed portion of educated gun owners take offense about needing a safety, but most of the time it is not a direct attack on you personally, rather just saying that a gun with a manuel safety is a safer gun... That's your choice, but I am sure some 1st time buyer's choice of a firearm was based soley on the advice from someone they spoke to who did not like manuel safeties, such as a friend, relative,or salesperson, and therefor, they purchased one without a manuel safety not really understanding the advantages or disadvantages of havin a gun without a manuel safety...That is probably a mistake waiting to happen...All that being said, I prefer a manuel safety as a gun is mechanical and is capable of failure... Even though it was not supposed to do that (bad whatever), what do you do afterwards...
FIRST RULE OF GUN SAFETY... BE SAFE... just sayin...

 

[Lost Lake]

Hey mlhumphrey... it's manual not manuel. Manuel is the guy in Mexico that gets you your drink. Manuel is the drummer in that Latin band you like.

Manual is doing it by hand.

You sound like a young guy. Not as experienced as kris and kbm. You may be able to learn a lot if you really think about what they are saying. Just keep an open mind and read exactly what they are saying. They are not against safeties.

They are against relying on them.

 

[Houdini1953]

Why???

The M&P is a Striker fired gun unlike other weapons like the 1911 45 acp it does not have a HAMMER. Look very closely at you M&P pistol and tell me where the HAMMER is that strikes the FIRING PIN??? It does not have one and so if you drop an M&P weapon what would cause it to fire? Nothing at all you would just pick it back up and re-holster it!

The only thing that would cause an M&P or Glock to fire is pulling a special trigger mechanism with the intent to fire the weapon, the only way you could possibly accidentally fire an M&P or Glock is if you had you finger in the trigger guard while reholstering.

I know that there are some that are trained to use and have a safety on their weapons, but with a striker fired weapon IT IS NOT NECESSARY because only the pulling of a trigger will make them fire!

 

[EXERCISINGTHE2ND]

If anything, purchasing a gun with a safety forces the operator to actually TRAIN with their weapon. You know, PRACTICE?

Get your point - driving analogy not so good with me since I grew up in Detroit plus driving go-carts, motorcycles, tractors, etc. However, I've seen people practice incorrectly and that's not good. To say it would "force" people is very optimistic. My point was and is, how does a gun go off accidentally to begin with? Any device that prevents an action pushes the operator to the next level of incompetent operation and, thus, a bigger accident. Not talking guns, but everything that can hurt and kill.

May not have carried, but learned to shoot 34 years ago.

Totally subscribe to "can't fix stupid" philosophy.

So, how does a gun go off accidentally with a safety, with a trigger safety, with a magazine safety, etc.?

 

[Lost Lake]

The only thing that would cause an M&P or Glock to fire is pulling a special trigger mechanism with the intent to fire the weapon, the only way you could possibly accidentally fire an M&P or Glock is if you had you finger in the trigger guard while reholstering.

Or if you caught a shirt tail in the trigger, or grabbed the gun while it was falling and caught the trigger, or if you walked through brush and a twig caught the trigger....

I believe in safeties. They do have a purpose. But as others have said the REAL safety is between your ears. Protect the trigger walking though brush, make sure your shirt tail isn't caught in your gun when you holster.... That type of thing.

Safeties are something that is good sometimes and bad sometimes and proper training can eliminate the bad times.

 

[mlhumphrey]

Hey mlhumphrey... it's manual not manuel. Manuel is the guy in Mexico that gets you your drink. Manuel is the drummer in that Latin band you like.

Manual is doing it by hand.

You sound like a young guy. Not as experienced as kris and kbm. You may be able to learn a lot if you really think about what they are saying. Just keep an open mind and read exactly what they are saying. They are not against safeties.

They are against relying on them.

You would be wrong Lost Lake...61 yrs old...Nam vet, missing a few parts, with plenty of bad memories including a few accidental discharges because guys forgot to put their safeties back ON, in essence, that would be the same as a gun with no safety...You know, pull the trigger and it goes bang!... I hear what they are saying, but you will never convince me that a gun without a safety is safer than one with, relying on it or not, and when something bad happens they will no longer feel that way either... If I had to choose between a manual safety OR relying on never ever ever ever ever having a bad day, a forgetful day, a dropsey day, a day when I have to say "I must have my head up my rear today" or in other words being perfect ever day of my life, I'll take the manual safety... My manual safety works in the most stressful situation I could ever be in, and I have been there, but how about all of those who think "finger off the trigger" is the only safety they need and have no idea how they will react when the most stressful situation they have been in is a traffic jam...Just my opinion, but I prefer to have one more deterrent before the gun goes bang and I shoot myself in the leg... Just ask Plaxico...

 

[kbm6893]

The problem is that people pass an 8 hour class and call themsleves trained. Maybe if they're REALLY hardcore, they go to a weekend at Blackwater and call themselves "Highly Trained". And it's all ****, because the ONLY thing that REALLY trains you is experience, and it takes time to get that. So when some 21 year old strolls into the gunshop and gets a Glock "because the FBI uses them", he's an accident waiting to happen. And those who REALLY see the safety as a disadvantage are in a dream world. Train to flick it off like we instinctively press on the brake pedal before shifting into drive and you'll be fine. Too many people are hurt or killed because some idiot who had barely any training did something stupid. Go ahead and shoot yourself in the foot all you want. When the rounds come my way, I have a problem with it. I've left public ranges after firing 5 rounds because some of the unsafe **** I see, and some of those guys have CCW permits.

 

[mlhumphrey]

The problem is that people pass an 8 hour class and call themsleves trained. Maybe if they're REALLY hardcore, they go to a weekend at Blackwater and call themselves "Highly Trained". And it's all ****, because the ONLY thing that REALLY trains you is experience, and it takes time to get that. So when some 21 year old strolls into the gunshop and gets a Glock "because the FBI uses them", he's an accident waiting to happen. And those who REALLY see the safety as a disadvantage are in a dream world. Train to flick it off like we instinctively press on the brake pedal before shifting into drive and you'll be fine. Too many people are hurt or killed because some idiot who had barely any training did something stupid. Go ahead and shoot yourself in the foot all you want. When the rounds come my way, I have a problem with it. I've left public ranges after firing 5 rounds because some of the unsafe **** I see, and some of those guys have CCW permits.

PERFECT...could not have said it any better...

 

[Lost Lake]

..... plenty of bad memories including a few accidental discharges because guys forgot to put their safeties back ON, in essence, that would be the same as a gun with no safety...

Not the same at all...

They forgot the safety and thought it was on, and thought they could do something stupid like put their finger on the trigger or point the muzzle in an unsafe direction and THEN the accident happened.

Safeties don't prevent stupid actions.

 

[mlhumphrey]

Not the same at all...

They forgot the safety and thought it was on, and thought they could do something stupid like put their finger on the trigger or point the muzzle in an unsafe direction and THEN the accident happened.

Safeties don't prevent stupid actions.

No different than the guy who forgets to keep his finger off the trigger here at home... Trust me, when you just get out of a fire fight with your life, maybe, just maybe, you might be a little rattled and forget about little things like putting your safety back on because thanking the Lord for sparing you and then changing your underwear may be tops on your to do list, but I suspect that you would know nothing about that!... Now do you suggest that YOU will ever be in a more stressful situation than that, here at home?...And if you were and forgot to keep your finger off the trigger and had a AD as a result of people shooting back at you trying to kill you, would that be an acceptable excuse or would YOU be considered stupid or guilty of doing something stupid, as you suggest?...Ask a Police Officer after he has put his life on the line protecting the citizens and I think you just might find a different person until adrenolin subsides... Young Americans were worlds away from the safety of home, and were dying protecting this country and your *** and you want to call them stupid???... Get real...

 

[Shielded]

I own handguns with & without safeties, but follow the main rules of gun safety. Finger off, treat as loaded, point in safe direction, etc...
It comes down to keeping your weapon as safe as it can be by its design and your training, and using your mind to the best of your ability. And mlhumphrey, Thank You for your Service!!!

 

[mlhumphrey]

I own handguns with & without safeties, but follow the main rules of gun safety. Finger off, treat as loaded, point in safe direction, etc...
It comes down to keeping your weapon as safe as it can be by its design and your training, and using your mind to the best of your ability. And mlhumphrey, Thank You for your Service!!!

thank you...

 

[jdh]

The two negligent discharges I witnessed in my 11 years of active duty were both far away from home. One resulted in the death of a drill sergeant (hell of a start to our service and a very sudden and tragic end to his) and the other in the loss of a hand. No one was being shot at and the first thing of the mouths of both who pulled the trigger was "THE SAFETY WAS ON!" No, it wasn't One was an M16 the other a 1911.

Safeties are not imbued with magical powers that prevent people from doing stupid things.

 

[Lenny_D]

Don't need one.

 

[kris7047th]

The two negligent discharges I witnessed in my 11 years of active duty were both far away from home. One resulted in the death of a drill sergeant (hell of a start to our service and a very sudden and tragic end to his) and the other in the loss of a hand. No one was being shot at and the first thing of the mouths of both who pulled the trigger was "THE SAFETY WAS ON!" No, it wasn't One was an M16 the other a 1911.

Safeties are not imbued with magical powers that prevent people from doing stupid things.

That was because there was a round chambered and they pulled the trigger. Again .. trigger discipline has to be properly taught and maintained through practice.

 

[Silversmok3]

Once I carried a PT99 with the safety on and hammer back.

I holstered my gun and drove to some store,and when I got out of my seat my holster felt "off".I carefully sat back down and closed the car door,looking at my carry weapon to figure out what's going on.

I slowly draw out the 9mm to find a string wrapped itself around the grip and trigger of the pistol.The "off" feeling was the edge of my jacket string pulling against the grip and trigger of the piece:Im assuming an errant string got caught up holstering and tightened up when I prepared to get out.

The string was wrapped around tight enough that I needed a multitool to cut it off.Fortunately my external frame safety was engaged,as at the time I carried it Cocked & Locked.Id have a new bullet hole in my calf if that gun were a Glock.


I know what the high speed low drag folks will say;I shoulda eliminated every piece of strings on my clothing,used a tactical 8 ball to predict Murphys arrival,etc.Bottom line is that morning I followed the four rules,and were it not for an external safety I could very easily have put a bullet in my calf artery and died.