The Russians have gone in

[Ruger Nut]

When you broadcast fear and indecision in Afghanistan you have to expect the wolves to make their move. Question is what does China get for their support of this? Russia's support for their invasion of Taiwan? This is only act 1 of a long scripted and thought out play we are only slowly beginning to understand. We have for practical purposes washed our hands of Ukraine, but if no one stops him now, he will keep going. He is following Hitler's lead and thinking he is too smart to make the same mistakes. We are obviously following Neville Chamberlains playbook and have no idea what we are doing other than lip service and hoping Putin goes away on his own.

I thought for sure that China was going to invade Taiwan at the same time Russia invaded Ukraine. It can still happen though.

 

[biku324]

The Chamberlain analysis only works if there was a written agreement to hand over the Donbas. Hitler got nothing in the way of sanctions, nor did anyone continue to arm, advise, and share intel with the Czechs.

 

[Bajadoc]

When you broadcast fear and indecision in Afghanistan you have to expect the wolves to make their move. Question is what does China get for their support of this? Russia's support for their invasion of Taiwan? This is only act 1 of a long scripted and thought out play we are only slowly beginning to understand. We have for practical purposes washed our hands of Ukraine, but if no one stops him now, he will keep going. He is following Hitler's lead and thinking he is too smart to make the same mistakes. We are obviously following Neville Chamberlains playbook and have no idea what we are doing other than lip service and hoping Putin goes away on his own.

I think you are probably right. But, I really, really, really, hope you and I are wrong.

 

[Pig Hunter]

Why don't we just turn on the Keystone pipeline instead of using strategic petroleum reserves????

 

[Absalom]

Why don't we just turn on the Keystone pipeline instead of using strategic petroleum reserves????

The Keystone was always oversold by both supporters and opponents. It was a symbolic football. All the Canadian oil it would have carried is getting where it needs to go by the existing pipelines, rail and ship. It’s not a magic spigot that gives us more oil.

 

[Kevin J.]

An observation and question. Watching these event over the last few days I have noticed the Russians forces seem to be missing two abilities needed in modern war, air power and the ability to operate at night.

One would expect real air power domination. The type of shock and awe we demonstrated in Iraq. Haven’t seen that yet.

Second it seems like the operations, including ground troops, stand down every night, could it be a weakness, can’t operate at night?

Now they maybe just being cautious but that isn’t what we have always been told how the Russians operate. One would expect a more aggressive and dominant operation. Haven’t really seen that. One would think that a force of 150K should be able take Kyiv rather quickly, even with the awesome defense put up by the Ukrainian resistance. Maybe the Russian military is really isn’t on board with this operation?

A lot a vets here. What you all think of the Russians military operations, strictly from a military strategy view point?

One thing for sure. Our military is getting a lot of intelligence on what the real world Russian military capabilities and methods are.

 

[biku324]

MANPADs (the Ukrainian air force is basically non-existent) make close air support bloody. In addition, Russia has never had the quantity of night vision devices we have had for individual soldiers since the early 2000s.

My guess is worth what you paid for it.

 

[ladder13]

No sanctions on Russian oil and gas exports?

I’ll answer my own question. Europe, and America are dependent on Russian energy.

Why Sanctions on Russia Aren'''t Targeting Oil and Gas | Time

 

[Ματθιας]

I've been thinking about this whole situation. To me, it seems hypocritical to condemn a country for doing what our government has been doing for decades. I mean, Russia is attempting to do what the US has done - invade a country/conduct military ops, kill a bunch folks with the seemingly ultimate goal of installing a friendly government.

US ops off the top of my head:

Operation Farm Gate
Operation Ranch Hand
Operation 34a
I don't know what/if there's an operational name for Vietnam
Operation Power Pack
Operation Urgent Fury
Operation Just Cause
Operation Restore Hope
Operation Uphold Democracy
Operation Allied Force
Operation Enduring Freedom
Operation Infinite Justice - Iraqi Freedom
Operation Odyssey Dawn
Operation Inherent Resolve

I'm sure there's many more ops, ongoing ones we don't know about, other actions, like, rigging elections and such, but, I think you all get the point. I'm not justifying nor condemning, actions, I'm simply making an observation.

 

[len917]

For me the question is, what does Russia really gain by invading/ conquering the Ukraine? "What am I missing here? What resources does Putin pick up that make it worth the risk? Forgive my ignorance.

Putin picks up 40 million unhappy citizens to try to rule

 

[len917]

Gee, “ Those that forget History are doomed to repeat” is all I’ll say.

Over and over again

 

[len917]

Raising the price at the pump only helps Putin's economy, we need to work on lowering the price of oil. This is about the only reason we need any relationship with the Saudis or am I being naive?

If we open the pipelines and begin drilling refining etc., we not only lower the price at the pumps, the U.S. also makes income from the export sale of the oil and LNG. It only makes sense to do this.

 

[len917]

When you broadcast fear and indecision in Afghanistan you have to expect the wolves to make their move. Question is what does China get for their support of this? Russia's support for their invasion of Taiwan? This is only act 1 of a long scripted and thought out play we are only slowly beginning to understand. We have for practical purposes washed our hands of Ukraine, but if no one stops him now, he will keep going. He is following Hitler's lead and thinking he is too smart to make the same mistakes. We are obviously following Neville Chamberlains playbook and have no idea what we are doing other than lip service and hoping Putin goes away on his own.

Hitler planned to take over Europe as is Russia is doing. China will be eyeballing Tiawan as Japan tried to take over Asia.

 

[Absalom]

I've been thinking about this whole situation. To me, it seems hypocritical to condemn a country for doing what our government has been doing for decades …..

I'm simply making an observation.

Your observation as to our government’s behavior is quite correct.

However, every action has a context. And the context determines whether one finds that action justified or not. All the actions you’ve listed have been the subject of vigorous debate in the country, always afterwards, sometimes as in the case of Iraq even beforehand. And especially during the Cold War, we did engage in some interventions that were as perfidious as what Putin is trying today, like Iran and Guatemala in the 1950s.

But those operations had their specific historic context. This is now, and it is certainly not hypocritical to judge Putin’s actions against his justifications and international law.

It’s pretty obvious who the bad guy is. I certainly do not feel restrained from rooting for the victim rather than the perpetrator by some misapplied moral relativism.

 

[len917]

MANPADs (the Ukrainian air force is basically non-existent) make close air support bloody. In addition, Russia has never had the quantity of night vision devices we have had for individual soldiers since the early 2000s.

My guess is worth what you paid for it.

They can get the night vision equipment from the Afghans who inherited them.

 

[biku324]

Um, the Russians that killed about 1.2 million Afghans? Perhaps not.

 

[Stumpnov]

They can get the night vision equipment from the Afghans who inherited them.

Which equipment? What systems are they integrated with? Night vision equipment has been around 70+ years. It isn't particularly useful if it doesn't work with your gear. In some cases using it in a non permissive environment can be hazardous to your health.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

The Chamberlain analysis only works if there was a written agreement to hand over the Donbas. Hitler got nothing in the way of sanctions, nor did anyone continue to arm, advise, and share intel with the Czechs.

Tacit acceptance is an agreement. Financially sanctioning individuals who take whatever they want from half of Asia is hardly a sanction. Our weapons and advice are hardly meaningful without the trained soldiers to use them. The Ukraine will put up a fight maybe as well as the Finns in the Winter War, but we all know the outcome if NATO does not intervene. Russia can easily replace their manpower losses, and will be happy to take our weapons (but they have their own advice) from Ukraine.

 

[biku324]

We can disagree, no problem.

Added: The EUCOM Office of Defense Cooperation has a robust mission with Ukraine, and has had for many years. From the Embassy website:

U.S. European Command’s (EUCOM) Office of Defense Cooperation (ODC) partners with Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense and Armed Forces to provide military equipment, training, familiarization events, and educational opportunities in order to support the modernization of Ukraine’s military and bilateral foreign policy objectives, while engaging at the tactical, operational, and strategic levels.

Key programs administered by the ODC include Foreign Military Sales / Foreign Military Financing (FMS/ FMF) primarily for purchase or U.S. grant provision of military equipment and training; the International Military Education and Training (IMET) program, which provides educational opportunities in the U.S. for Ukrainian military personnel; and the Bilateral Military-to-Military program (Mil-Mil), consisting of annual military training and familiarization events.

Other major programs include the U.S. Ministry of Defense Advisor team, the Doctrine, Education, and Advisory team, and EUCOM’s Humanitarian Assistance Program, which provides construction and renovation assistance to schools, orphanages, and other Ukrainian essential service providers. The overarching security cooperation / assistance objective of all programs is to promote stability, democratization, military professionalism, and closer relationships with NATO, while fostering stronger military partnership ties and improved bilateral defense compatibility.

Additionally, the ODC, in conjunction with the State of California, administers the State Partnership Program (SPP), which in 2018 celebrated 25 years of partnership with Ukraine. The SPP provides the platform for a long-term California – Ukraine partnership, and directly supports both the goals of the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine and Commander, U.S. European Command. Additionally, the Adjutant General of the California National Guard facilitates partnerships with Ukraine throughout the state and local governments in California as well as the private sector.

Then there's our Defense Attaché Office:

The Defense Attaché Office (DAO) is a Joint-Service Department of Defense office that advises the Ambassador and Country Team on all defense and security matters and provides timely, accurate information to senior leaders on defense and security issues affecting Ukraine and the region.

Comprised of representatives from all four branches of the United States military, the DAO liaises across a broad spectrum within the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. In cooperation with their Ukrainian military counterparts, members of the DAO execute events and programs associated with both the Security Cooperation and the European Command (EUCOM) Military-to-Military contact plans that build Ukrainian Armed Forces combat capabilities and advance the Ukrainian military toward NATO interoperability.

 

[Kevin J.]

Charlie Wilson's War (film - Wikipedia)

Seems historically relative, or will be soon.