Hand cuffs

[cracker57]

A post in a different thread got me thinking, (I know that's dangerous.)
someone stated if you carry a gun you need to carry hand cuffs to restrain a threat if you need to wait for the police to arrive.
I for one find this advice to be very dangerous, and have been teaching that distance is your friend. NEVER GET CLOSE TO A THREAT.
What do you all think?

 

[Rodan]

There are two issues...

First, handcuffing a suspect is very dangerous. You have to be in close contact, and you can no longer cover the threat with a weapon. You need both hands for cuffing. It requires training, and practice to both be good at it, and to be prepared when it goes sideways. There's a reason you see lots of videos of multiple cops wrestling with suspects that are resisting... it is very, very difficult to get handcuffs on an actively resisting suspect.

Second, depending upon the laws in your state, you could be committing an 'unlawful imprisonment' or 'kidnapping' by restraining someone without lawful authority. You would want to have a clear understanding of your local laws and whether you have the lawful authority as a citizen to restrain another citizen under the given circumstances.

My recommendation would be against the use of handcuffs or other restraints, unless you have the requisite training.

 

[tops]

I think the best advice and my first thought is to get away from the threat. The gun is to use when that fails. Larry

 

[326MOD10]

Made my thoughts clear in the other thread but for those that missed it BAD IDEA!

Purpose of a CCW is to protect yourself not to apprehend criminals.

Host of other reasons to include those listed above.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I disagree. As a private citizen that is not your job and could create the belief in some eyes that you viewed yourself as acting as a cop. Also, as noted above, solo handcuffing is not a particularly safe past time. Wait for the cops to arrive or disengage.

 

[whitestang]

I agree with Rodan on this, if you no training or the wrong training you will get yourself into trouble.
When I was a Deputy there was an EOW bulletin issued from another state where a Deputy had removed one cuff from a person and did not close it, the person used it as a weapon and killed the Deputy with it.
When I was in Nuclear Security we had a training class on how to detain people and one was using cuffs. One person had been an MP in the Army and after placing the cuffs in the person used the chain in between the cuffs to hold the person and could have had their finger broken if the bad guy wanted to get away.
There was one person in the class that said they knew how to it better than anyone else. I had this person hand cuff me and instead they had the cuffs on them. I know this was long but I hope these examples help.

 

[Xfuzz]

In the academy they would pick the smallest guy
and the biggest guy in class.
The little guy was instructed to simply resist being cuffed
no hitting or kicking the other cadet.

The cadet doing the cuffing was worn down within 10 minutes.

It takes at LEAST two trained coppers to cuff some dude that
does not want to be handcuffed.
Now days the resisting suspect "rides the lighting" (tazed) then is cuffed.

 

[Piwo]

There is no reason on earth that that a non-sworn person would attempt to put handcuffs on a suspect. Police officers go through days of training in the academy on the "mechanics of arrest." Then they develop their skills under the supervision of a Field Training Officer (FTO) for their probationary period that can be from 6 months to two years. This while they are younger and in better shape. Under the best of conditions it takes two officers to conduct a safe arrest, many more when the subject is uncooperative. Which is usually the case with dangerous and desperate offenders. It can be one of the most difficult and hazardous moments for an officer when he or she has to close distance and physically restrain someone. They arrest people and take them into custody because it is their sworn duty. I'm 100% sure that every single officer on this site has horror stories regarding cuffing suspects while arresting them.
Having said that, our duty as citizens is to survive a deadly force encounter, no more. If we can break off an attack and get out of danger, that is all we need to do. If the attacker/ offender gets away, so what. We are out of danger. Most people have no concept of the skills involved in restraining a potentially violent individual. Putting oneself in close proximity to your attacker is likely to get you disarmed and shot with your own gun, at the least. I could go on...but in short....Don't ever try to restrain someone with handcuffs (Unless you are law enforcement/security). It is simply not worth the risks involved.

 

[WR Moore]

One of the great advantages of being non-LEO is that you have neither an obligation nor duty to take a miscreant into custody. You have, however, given them a demonstration of what that type of behavior might lead to.

OTOH, I recall an incident deep in the last century where a University of Pittsburgh officer and his sergeant took a guy into custody and the officer went to search/handcuff the guy. The guy ended up fleeing with the officers gun.

DO call it in right then and there after the miscreant is on their way. First person to reach dispatch is the "victim".

And, about a point raised in post #2, the state I now live in is a former crown colony. I suspect that citizen arrest exists here, but I can find no mention of it in black letter law. You're basically looking at a he said/he said situation.....unless maybe the miscreant is a frequent flyer in the legal system AND has an illegal weapon on them.

 

[Krogen]

I guess this is a "me too" post, but I can't fathom why I'd want to try and cuff a threatening person. I am not a LEO and my objective would be to avoid a threat if possible. Moving toward a threat isn't my job or part of my training. I'm not even sure that providing medical assistance to a downed threat is a good idea. That would involve getting close to a threat who may not truly be "down for the count." For me, it's 1) avoid, 2) survive and 3) wait for the cops.

 

[rockquarry]

This seems an absurd thread that serves only as an attempt at soothing justification for yet another of the endless obsessive thoughts of the "what if" make-believe combat faction of concealed carriers.

The use of handcuffs (and perhaps the events that lead up to civilians using them) cross the line into actual police work. A concealed carry course, gunfighting schools, and YouTube clips are not equivalency courses for professional police training.

 

[Rustyt1953]

So far, in this thread, no one condones this reckless practice.

As I queried in the other thread; "can anyone point me to a police agency that actually advocates civilians carrying restraints?"

 

[Rudi]

A very bad idea to use cuffs.

 

[Smoke]

When I worked for G4S they issued me a set of handcuffs and they taught me how to put them on somebody.

During the class I very specifically asked the instructor under what circumstances would it be acceptable for me to handcuff somebody.

The instructor, I won't say he refused to answer but he absolutely ignored the question every time I asked it.

Finally, after probably the second or third time I asked one of the supervisors told me that possibly I might want to handcuff somebody if I had ever pepper sprayed them, for their own safety.

I decided then and there that I was never going to put anybody in handcuffs as long as I worked for G4S. I didn't even carry my handcuffs on the duty belt they gave me. I kept him in the pocket of my body armor.

Having said all that, as a few other posters have noted you can go on YouTube and watch videos of cops trying to handcuff somebody and it usually takes two or three cops even on a little 98 lb woman. There is absolutely no way as a private citizen that I would ever attempt to put handcuffs on somebody.

And I certainly wouldn't carry them because as others have mentioned, it could lead to some very awkward questions from the cops.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I don't even know of any LEO's that carry handcuffs off duty, and I've never heard of any LEO, except for that fella' in the other thread, advocating for civilian carry of cuffs. Most off duty LEO's probably have a set in their backpack in the truck, though . . .

So far, in this thread, no one condones this reckless practice.

As I queried in the other thread; "can anyone point me to a police agency that actually advocates civilians carrying restraints?"

 

[rockquarry]

When I worked for G4S they issued me a set of handcuffs and they taught me how to put them on somebody.

During the class I very specifically asked the instructor under what circumstances would it be acceptable for me to handcuff somebody.

The instructor, I won't say he refused to answer but he absolutely ignored the question every time I asked it.

Finally, after probably the second or third time I asked one of the supervisors told me that possibly I might want to handcuff somebody if I had ever pepper sprayed them, for their own safety.

I decided then and there that I was never going to put anybody in handcuffs as long as I worked for G4S. I didn't even carry my handcuffs on the duty belt they gave me. I kept him in the pocket of my body armor.

Having said all that, as a few other posters have noted you can go on YouTube and watch videos of cops trying to handcuff somebody and it usually takes two or three cops even on a little 98 lb woman. There is absolutely no way as a private citizen that I would ever attempt to put handcuffs on somebody.

And I certainly wouldn't carry them because as others have mentioned, it could lead to some very awkward questions from the cops.

What is G4S?

 

[Muss Muggins]

What is G4S?

British based multinational private security company. The Orlando nightclub shooter was an employee . . .

 

[Smoke]

What is G4S?

G4S was a security company that bought out Wackenhut several years ago. They were bought out by Allied Universal about the time I retired.

I think G4S Europe still exists as a separate company.

I'm not an expert on security companies but of the three I worked for G4S was the worst

 

[minconrevo]

I tote a set of cuffs in my glovebox and another in my go bag. More for a function of a quick securing gadget for a gun or such, than to cuff a perp. Risk to get close enough without assistance to cuff a fully alert perp vs keep at a safe distance is a big consideration.

One of my LE sons does carry cuffs off duty. He's been a street cop for many years and has seen much.

 

[rockquarry]

G4S was a security company that bought out Wackenhut several years ago. They were bought out by Allied Universal about the time I retired.

I think G4S Europe still exists as a separate company.

I'm not an expert on security companies but of the three I worked for G4S was the worst

Thank you; I'm a bit lacking when it comes to acronyms.