How long until S&W has an answer to the Sig P365?

[Nakanokalronin]

Even if they get the bugs worked out of the P365, today's Sig scrapes the bottom of the barrel by having their internals made in India. I work with a lot of metal and all of the India made metal is hard to work with, hard to weld and parts made from it have catastrophic failures and/or wear out 4 times faster. I don't know if I could trust it on that fact alone. Also their profit margin must be HUGE! I mean polymer guns are already cheap to produce, but add in India made steel components and you have a company that is more focused on saving money than making a quality product.

 

[Buckeye63]

I feel Ruger will be coming out with a LC9S double stack in the near future

 

[Flyingfool]

Stated above:

“I briefly owned a shield and sold it as the Glock 43 is better in just about every way... ”

Exactly how is the G43 better? It holds one less round (2 reall), the grip is modeled after a carved out piece of a 2x4, and feels like a brick and has the wrong grip angle.

Yep “better” in every way...Not!

Better for you perhaps, but absolutely worse for me in every way, including price!

 

[Execpro]

Mike-SCHunter is correct. The Sig comes with a 10 round mag. For $38 plus tax you can get a 12 round mag for the Sig. that brings the price to around $450.
Another issue as I posted above besides the mechanical ones,is people with large hands that use the “Combat grip” are inadvertently engaging the slide stop. I DON’T want to be concerned about my grip in a self defense situation!
The double stack mag is a winner, but the gun is just too small.

Everyone to their own tast. That why so many car models exist.

For me the Shield pistol is a perfect balance of size,function and capacity. I don’t think S&W has anything to worry about.

Stay SAFE and shoot often!

 

[jhnttrpp]

How about 9c? 12rd mags.

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17.8 ozs vs 24.7 ozs. I think that may be a lot. 5.8 vs 6.7 over all length. It all depends on what the purpose you need it for.

 

[rifmon]

I loved SIG handguns when their line-up consisted of the 220, 226, 228, 225, 230 and 239. When you bought one of these, there were no beta-testers. They just worked!

I like my Shield. It works and handles like a larger handgun.

 

[Fchewy]

My Shield has had enough capacity to handle every gunfight i've been in so far, matter of fact so has my 442, just say'in.........

 

[45FMJoe]

Hum, 2 million shields sold, when the 365 gets to 100k maybe S&W should start thinking about it. Oh and after Sig fixes the out of battery condition and the other items I have seen maybe.


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Similarly, I read Glock has sold over 3 million 43s. I would say neither will be in a rush to change anything. The Sig is a *** anyway.

 

[curlysir]

From what understand, primer swipe is not unusual with small automatics. The RSA on my Shield 45 broke at 600 rounds. So, yeah, **** happens.

I own a Shield 9mm and a Sig P365. They both have essentially identical "Primer Swipe". I doubt that I or anyone else could tell which gun they were fired from if they were mixed together.

 

[comiskeybum]

Ok look, I am the biggest Smith fan that there is. But for all of you guys saying the 365 is no big deal and people are going crazy for 2 extra rounds, then you are ignoring some obvious selling points. The 365 is MUCH smaller than the shield and in fact only comes close when the 12 round magazine is inserted. Giving you 13 versus 9. So two extra rounds you say?

Yes, it's a new model that is working out some quirks. Yes, the Shield is a proven winner in the industry. But to ignore what the 365 offers and dismiss the ways that it hands down beats the shield is ridiculous.

This Smith fan has one on order, proudly. NOT a shield.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

Ok look, I am the biggest Smith fan that there is. But for all of you guys saying the 365 is no big deal and people are going crazy for 2 extra rounds, then you are ignoring some obvious selling points. The 365 is MUCH smaller than the shield and in fact only comes close when the 12 round magazine is inserted. Giving you 13 versus 9. So two extra rounds you say?

Yes, it's a new model that is working out some quirks. Yes, the Shield is a proven winner in the industry. But to ignore what the 365 offers and dismiss the ways that it hands down beats the shield is ridiculous.

This Smith fan has one on order, proudly. NOT a shield.

According to what I read and after looking at the dimensions, Kel-Tec did it years ago with the P11. I'm hoping another company will copy it that doesn't have their current guns made with inferior internals in a country with little to no QC. Heck, even India forces doesn't want to use India made firearms.

I wanted to like the P365 and would already have one on order if it wasn't such a mess. Once I became aware of where Sig sources their parts I was instantly turned off on any gun currently coming out of that company. I might buy one some day if the P365 is on sale for half the price and all internals can be upgraded with quality aftermarket replacements. Either that or Sig gets it's act together and makes all internals here like they seem to be able to.

 

[mlk18]

Ok look, I am the biggest Smith fan that there is. But for all of you guys saying the 365 is no big deal and people are going crazy for 2 extra rounds, then you are ignoring some obvious selling points. The 365 is MUCH smaller than the shield and in fact only comes close when the 12 round magazine is inserted. Giving you 13 versus 9. So two extra rounds you say?

Yes, it's a new model that is working out some quirks. Yes, the Shield is a proven winner in the industry. But to ignore what the 365 offers and dismiss the ways that it hands down beats the shield is ridiculous.

This Smith fan has one on order, proudly. NOT a shield.

Well said and very true. S&W, Glock, Ruger, etc. would be stupid to not be working on a subcompact variant that mimics the capacity of the P365. It's not about what is out there, it is about what is new and exciting. New gun buyers are going to walk into gun shops when Sig gets the market saturated and they are going to walk out with P365's. Then when they decide they want something bigger for home defense, they are going to buy a P320. That's how marketing and sales works in the real world, and it's how brand loyalty gets started.

Plus attend one or two *good* combat shooting courses and suddenly those extra 2-3 rounds start to seem more and more important. The old days of 6 rounds at 6 feet have been replaced by multiple shots and multiple shooters. People will often compromise between carry-ability, conceal-ability and capacity. Sig is giving them a better option than anyone else right now. I bet Kel-Tec is even working on an upgrade to the P11.

I am not giving up my Shield for a P365, not yet anyway. But if S&W came up with a slightly fatter gripped 10 round Shield M3.0 with a 12 round extendo that has the same or shorter overall height as a Shield M1.0 I would run out and buy that in a heartbeat.

 

[Jeppo]

In this week's conference call, AOBC announced their recovery will depend on innovation and new products.

 

[Mister X]

Plus attend one or two *good* combat shooting courses and suddenly those extra 2-3 rounds start to seem more and more important. The old days of 6 rounds at 6 feet have been replaced by multiple shots and multiple shooters.

There's plenty of stats out there on civilian self-defense incidents that show not much has actually changed all that much, but there are a lot defensive shooting instructors out there making a good living convincing people that it has and that they are woefully unprepared if they don't take a certain class or arm themselves with a specific gun with X number of rounds. Most of what is taught in these high dollar tactical courses is irrelevant to the concerns of the armed citizen. If an individual wants to take them for fun, that's one thing, but there is no actual need for them.

 

[FloridaS&W]

..to ignore what the 365 offers and dismiss the ways that it hands down beats the shield is ridiculous.

Beats it how -- in failure to battery, barrel damage, primer swipe, cheap internals from India, etc? I'm sure they will eventually work it out, but right now it still Sounds like another SIG train wreck, kinda like their P320. So it's not that we're ignoring it, more like we are 'unconvinced' that it's beating the S&W based on observation.

 

[curlysir]

I own a shield and a P365. Both have been trouble free. Granted I have not had the P365 as long as the shield but have put close to 250 trouble free rounds through it.

Both have "Primer Swipe/Drag". The attached pictures shows fired casings from my Shield on the left and the P365 on the right. The concept of the P365 is excellent. One of the biggest down sides of the Shield to me has been its capacity. All of the problem reports on the P365 do have me concerned, but it does appear that the latest production pistols do appear to be having fewer problems.

 

[FloridaS&W]

That looks a little more normal. Yours is not as bad as the 'severe' swipe from the P365 shown in the article, which extends all the way over to the edge on nearly every round:

Gun Review Follow-Up: Another Look at the SIG P365 - The Truth About Guns

 

[mlk18]

There's plenty of stats out there on civilian self-defense incidents that show not much has actually changed all that much, but there are a lot defensive shooting instructors out there making a good living convincing people that it has and that they are woefully unprepared if they don't take a certain class or arm themselves with a specific gun with X number of rounds. Most of what is taught in these high dollar tactical courses is irrelevant to the concerns of the armed citizen. If an individual wants to take them for fun, that's one thing, but there is no actual need for them.

That's the perfect example of playing the law of averages instead of being prepared for the worst. That's what the FBI did during the Miami shoot out too. The stats all said those revolvers were good enough and the .38spl round got the job done just fine. Of course even back then some firearms instructors said they should be better prepared with higher capacity and larger caliber firearms. Too bad they wanted to hold onto the past instead of embracing the new world they were living in. Change is hard, as is thinking outside of the box, especially when those old tales of the gun have been parroted so many times by the old guard that people refuse to let go of them. Of course there's a difference between carrying your pocket 380 in Mayberry and potentially facing a hostile crowd in Detroit. I guess "actual need" is relative and doesn't fit inside an old statistic or a dusty box.

 

[CBStuard]

My M&Pc 1.0 works just fine and I have 12, 14, 15 and 17 rnd mags for it. I don't see how reducing width by 1/8 inch is a big deal.

 

[joeb1]

New review out today on the SIG P365...
now it's showing signs of primer swipe...

Gun Review Follow-Up: Another Look at the SIG P365 - The Truth About Guns

Here's a video about 3 short barrel guns with striker drag.

Primer drags on Sig P365, Glock 43, and S&W M&P Shield - YouTube

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