NYPD Off-Duty Question

Any good boss let you have speedloaders...some even told you to get them...as long as you didn't put them on your belt. No prob in cooler weather, they fit easily in pocket of jacket. Personally, when in the bag I always carried my Chief as well.

Still have my S&W mod. 10 and Chief 36...anyone remember .38 158 grain semi-wadcutters? Yup, that was our approved ammo for a while.

MOS 882xxx
 
Wow..........Some good discussion here!

So the reader's digest without getting into models, etc....?

Pre Mid 1993- Revolver On and Off-Duty

1993-1998-Auto On-Duty and Revolver Off-Duty

1998-Present-Auto on and off-duty.

Of course anyone from the revolver era can transition to auto or transition to Auto for on duty but keep Revolver off-duty, etc?
 
Ultra45.....

I was always fascinated by the various "eras" in NYPD history when it comes to weaponry and the "grandfather" clause that the NYPD offten uses when transitioning to newer equipment.

As a fun side note to firearms does the following sound about right with NYPD impact weapons/batons:?

Pre 1988- Straight Wood Nighstick

1988-2000- PR-24 Baton (Side Handle Baton)

2000-Present- Straight Plastic Nightstick or Expandable Straight Baton (ASP)

Rubber Billet (Short Day Billy)- Authorized through all "eras" through present time for carry on the day tour only instead of the full size stick.

Like firearms, you are "grandfathered" to carry what you were hired with unless you voluntarily transition. Sound about right?
 
CTSP-0960 said:
Ultra45.....

I was always fascinated by the various "eras" in NYPD history when it comes to weaponry and the "grandfather" clause that the NYPD offten uses when transitioning to newer equipment.

As a fun side note to firearms does the following sound about right with NYPD impact weapons/batons:?

Pre 1988- Straight Wood Nighstick

1988-2000- PR-24 Baton (Side Handle Baton)

2000-Present- Straight Plastic Nightstick or Expandable Straight Baton (ASP)

Rubber Billet (Short Day Billy)- Authorized through all "eras" through present time for carry on the day tour only instead of the full size stick.

Like firearms, you are "grandfathered" to carry what you were hired with unless you voluntarily transition. Sound about right?
Click to expand...

I believe you have the dates & models of batons correct. I'd check with one of the newer officers regarding the rubber billy (day stick), as I'm not sure if its still allowed. Most have transitioned to the ASP's. The dates you speak of are for PATROL. The ASP type batons were carried as early as 1991. Again, one of the departments test programs had, I think OCCB and maybe warrants authorized to carry them. I got trained in '91 or '92 (special detail) and was issued mine, although as a Detective never carried it.
 
:pI always liked the Day Billy! When struck, it would leave the seal of the City on the Striked, giving it the Proof Mark it requuired!
LOL
 
LOL...........Lex, where was the city seal. Molded right in the rubber?
 
I have to get one of those day billys for the NYPD collection-anyone here have one lying around?
 
S. Kelly said:
I have to get one of those day billys for the NYPD collection-anyone here have one lying around?
Click to expand...

If you know any active mos that can help you out, they have them for sale at the equipment section at 1pp. As a matter of fact last week the equipment section website was advertizing "rubber billets" on sale for $2.00 each. I'm sure some of the "buff shops" stock them as well.

Kind of unique to have an impact weapon made of rubber. Rubber was never used much as a material for impact weapons here in the us, however, it was used for such purpuse exstensively with european police impact weapons. Here in the us billys and nighticks were generally made of wood or plastic. Also interesting to have a impact weapon designated for certain tours. Per the nypd patrol guide:


"The rubber billet may be carried from 08:00 to 16:00 in lieu of the baton."

As for a little history, the day billy was carried on the day tour because people out during the day were generally good people so you didn't want to offend them with the full size stick plus with all the good people out during the day tour there was less of a chance you would need an impact weapon. At night only bad people were out so you needed the bigger nightstick for protection and you weren't much concerned with offending the bad night folk!

Oh how times have changed, now they don't want you offending anyone, good or bad!
 
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CTSP-0960 said:
If you know any active mos that can help you out, they have them for sale at the equipment section at 1pp. As a matter of fact last week the equipment section website was advertizing "rubber billets" on sale for $2.00 each. I'm sure some of the "buff shops" stock them as well.

Kind of unique to have an impact weapon made of rubber. Rubber was never used much as a material for impact weapons here in the us, however, it was used for such purpuse exstensively with european police impact weapons. Here in the us billys and nighticks were generally made of wood or plastic. Also interesting to have a impact weapon designated for certain tours. Per the nypd patrol guide:


"The rubber billet may be carried from 08:00 to 16:00 in lieu of the baton."

As for a little history, the day billy was carried on the day tour because people out during the day were generally good people so you didn't want to offend them with the full size stick. At night only bad people were out so you needed the bigger nightstick for protection and you weren't much concerned with offending the bad night folk!

Oh how times have changed, now they don't want you offending anyone, good or bad!
Click to expand...

Man, that rubber billet was the most useless thing. Never saw anyone carry theirs. Only other totally useless thing that everybody immediately discarded was the fake fur on the duty jacket collar. Nobody wore those things. right into the garbage.
 
CTSP-0960 said:
If you know any active mos that can help you out, they have them for sale at the equipment section at 1pp. As a matter of fact last week the equipment section website was advertizing "rubber billets" on sale for $2.00 each. I'm sure some of the "buff shops" stock them as well.

Kind of unique to have an impact weapon made of rubber. Rubber was never used much as a material for impact weapons here in the us, however, it was used for such purpuse exstensively with european police impact weapons. Here in the us billys and nighticks were generally made of wood or plastic. Also interesting to have a impact weapon designated for certain tours. Per the nypd patrol guide:


"The rubber billet may be carried from 08:00 to 16:00 in lieu of the baton."

As for a little history, the day billy was carried on the day tour because people out during the day were generally good people so you didn't want to offend them with the full size stick plus with all the good people out during the day tour there was less of a chance you would need an impact weapon. At night only bad people were out so you needed the bigger nightstick for protection and you weren't much concerned with offending the bad night folk!

Oh how times have changed, now they don't want you offending anyone, good or bad!
Click to expand...
Yeah, and you couldn't really rap the day billy on the ground for backup, as you supposedly could with the nightstick. BTW, I think your dates sound about right for impact weapons, BUT, grandfathering did not apply to other impact weapons such as slappers. Come to think of it, I don't know if they were ever actually authorized (before my time, if they were). Rumor has it the slit pockets on the back of the duty trousers were for them, though I saw many a long-necked Bud in them instead.;)
 
kbm6893 said:
Man, that rubber billet was the most useless thing. Never saw anyone carry theirs. Only other totally useless thing that everybody immediately discarded was the fake fur on the duty jacket collar. Nobody wore those things. right into the garbage.
Click to expand...

Never carried the day billet so I can't vouch for its effectiveness, or lack thereof! Always thought it was a neat item, at least from an historical standpoint. The biggest piece of crap in my career, impact weapon wise was the pr-24. What a useless baton.

It was a baton created for political correctness. Just so when you go to court someone can say "it's not just used to hit people, you can do all this other stuff with it." Meanwhile your average cop will never be able to execute any of the techniques taught. Keep it simple, a baton is used for striking like it ot not, don't try and re-invent the wheel!

Was glad to get rid of it for the ASP!
 
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That day billy looks like a, how can I clean this up, adult novelty toy. I'll stick with the ASP baton.
 
perpster said:
Yeah, and you couldn't really rap the day billy on the ground for backup, as you supposedly could with the nightstick. BTW, I think your dates sound about right for impact weapons, BUT, grandfathering did not apply to other impact weapons such as slappers. Come to think of it, I don't know if they were ever actually authorized (before my time, if they were). Rumor has it the slit pockets on the back of the duty trousers were for them, though I saw many a long-necked Bud in them instead.;)
Click to expand...

After speaking with some of the older NYPD guys it seems as though the Sap/Slapper and Blackjack were never issued or authorized, however, they were carried unofficially until someone "said" something, probably why they weren't grandfathered!(And the fact that they are not PC). They were, however, issued in many parts of the country for many years. Up here in CT, some dept.'s issued blackjacks/saps up until the early 90's! As far as decent size PD's that sill allow them, I know Denver PD and the San Diego SD still authorize saps, and someone told me Yonkers PD still authorizes them but never confirmed that.

As for the slits in the backs of uniform pants, I can say that it was a universal police pant feature and not just an nypd thing. They were made to carry saps and blackjacks. Nowadays they are mainly used to carry flashlights. In the uniform catalogs they are still called "sap pockets". Saw many a cops growing up with a "jack" carried in that pocket!

In the NYPD was that pocket where the day billy was carried or was there a belt holder for it?

I like the long neck use for those pockets though!
 
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I've clocked quite a few people with the PR-24. Never used that "ninja crap" the academy tried to teach you, though. Just grab it by the short end and swing like you're Mark McGuire!

I recall once hitting a guy with my flashlight. Many guys left their batons in the car (the ASP is good for that. Short enough to drive with on your belt). 4 cell maglight and the batteries and lens flew everywhere (I hit him with the lens end. Happened very fast). I was crapping my pants for a few days. Figured the mutt would hit me with a brutuality charge and the job would not indemnify me since the flashlight is not "an authorized impact weapon). Guy took his lumps, though. never dropped a dime.
 
shawn mccarver said:
The "day stick" or "day billie" used to be available from Jay-Pee, the same people that made the NYPD leather.
Click to expand...

Good ole Jay-Pee, they are still around after all these years! Pretty sure that's where the equipment section at 1PP still get's the day billet's from...
 
Sonny Crocket said:
You older guys will appreciate this I think. Pat Rogers is a nationally know trainer on the AR platform but at one time he was in the bag in NY.
10-8 Forums: My Service Revolver- a retro look at Iron
There are pics of his 10-6 on the first page and his 36 on page 3.
Click to expand...

Getting back to firearms, good article on old school NYPD revolver days. Pat Rogers tell's it like it is! I like the "perfumed Princes from 1pp"!

Some guys will say that in this day and age it is crazy to carry a revolver on-duty when the auto is an option. Don't know if I agree with that statement, however, I cannot believe that the boys who still choose to carry a wheel gun in NYC are restricted to that one model Jay-Pee holster with the leather safety strap that locks the cylinder down! That is dangerous!! I'm all for history but that is one piece of equipment that should be relegated to the history books!
 
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I didn't realize they removed the snubs from the troops being able to carry them, that is a sucky idea.

Here on my job we can carry nearly anything we can qual with. I have Glock 26s and S&W 642s that I use for off-duty and BUG use.
 
tpd223 said:
I didn't realize they removed the snubs from the troops being able to carry them, that is a sucky idea.

Here on my job we can carry nearly anything we can qual with. I have Glock 26s and S&W 642s that I use for off-duty and BUG use.
Click to expand...

tpd223,

Good to see you over here. Your one of the people whose posts I always pay attention to on Lightfighter and M4Carbine.

I always thought NYPD would be doing the MOS a great service by adding the 442/642 to the current list, but I doubt they will. From what I understand they want to be 9mm only but have to deal with the .38s till those guys all retire.
 
Here ya go, I finally found this again. NY Times article on how the revolver is a dying breed in NYPD.
Old-School Officers Swear By the Vanishing .38 - New York Times

If you do a search you'll see several articles on the dreaded "dum-dum" bullets and how they are inhumane for use by NYPD. Also saw several references to the at first 10rd. mags and later 15rd. mags.
 
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florida1098 said:
This is a little better pic of our 1983 uniform and model 10 in holster. When I retired in 03 left gun in locker as I was only offered $25 for it and never went back. Wish I kept it. But I never wanted anything to do with guns again at the time.
Click to expand...

Your going 2 make a lot of grown men on here cry with that line! I guess 20 years in the "nypd" will do that to you though!
 
Sonny Crocket said:
Here ya go, I finally found this again. NY Times article on how the revolver is a dying breed in NYPD.
Old-School Officers Swear By the Vanishing .38 - New York Times

If you do a search you'll see several articles on the dreaded "dum-dum" bullets and how they are inhumane for use by NYPD. Also saw several references to the at first 10rd. mags and later 15rd. mags.
Click to expand...

Another good NYPD revolver article! That was written in 04 and there was a little over 2,000 revolvers out there, it's gotta be closer to 1,000 by now.
 
CTSP-0960 said:
Good ole Jay-Pee, they are still around after all these years! Pretty sure that's where the equipment section at 1PP still get's the day billet's from...
Click to expand...

Still on Prince Street in Flushing , NY. I visited recently.
 
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